Author Topic: 1.8 SEH running issues  (Read 1063 times)

24Vdiamond

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1.8 SEH running issues
« on: January 14, 2018, 12:42:59 PM »
Hi all, ive been given a 1.8 SEH estate with running issues, its had loads of others tinkering without result and ive spent some time working through it and come to the conclusion its airflow meter, it can take a bit of cranking to start and then ticks over ok but when you give it some gas it splutters and pops and bangs a bit up to 1500 rpm, if you bring the revs up slow its ok?? its had a head gasket, fuel pump, pump relay, plugs, leads, dist cap & rotor, coolant temp sensor, throttle position sensor

The cam timings spot on, no air leaks and everything else seems to check out so im at the airflow meter which looks like its been fiddled with! anyone got anything else to suggest as ive spent enough time on it now!
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

Dave the Builder

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 04:47:17 PM »
1.8 SEH ? never heard of one ? is it a home brew hybrid of 1.8 block with a 20seh (cavalier sri 130 management on)?
Is this a mk 2 carlton estate ? 1986 or older ? ie rekord e2

fuel rail pressure regulator or the silver disc  fuel return reducer (LOW FUEL AT INJECTORS, FUEL RAIL DRAINING )
or is it single point injection ? (not SEH , H= high output , S= multi point injection )



If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

24Vdiamond

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2018, 05:18:35 PM »
Its a MK3 and as it left the factory replacing the earlier carb 1.8 NV/SV models, basically the 1.8 SEH is very similar injection wise to the 2.0 NE/SE engines to the point of using the same inlet manifold but the throttle body is different and the airflow meter is different, unfortunately the system is a lot more basic so you do not even get an engine management light which means I cant do the paper clip blink code thingy

Never had dealings with the silver disc thing on the fuel line, can it be run without for testing I wonder?
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

Dave the Builder

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2018, 05:49:06 PM »
If it's a mk 3 then  would it have abs brakes as standard  ? have you checked the engine management bulb has not been removed /taped over .
IIRC the abs ecu needs a bulb in the dash to be present and working to give the abs ecu a signal to function.
so a missing engine management light bulb in the dash (removed so the car will pass an MOT ) may cause issues with the engine ecu  ??
i think the silver disc stops the fuel rail draining back to the tank when the pump is not running (over night for example)
removing it would make it worse ,i would think , not sure,
does the car have evap purge valve ? (in the tank vent line 2 wire solenoid )a dusty seal will stop the valve closing/sealing completely.
then there is the air idle control valve ,common to cause issues
also check the running voltage and battery voltage (above 12 even when cranking)
poor earthing points and old corroded electrical connections can sqew readings to the ecu
(the earth strap from alternator to cam housing is crap and best beefed up) but all earths need a clean including coil.

what are the spark plugs like ? oiling up ?
done a compression test ?




If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

Dave the Builder

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 06:17:44 PM »
 in the  fault code list for BOSCH Motronic ECU Fault Codes is :
37 and 135   Engine self-diagnosis (fault code light) low voltage
so maybe it should have a dash light

also common for a break in one of the 2 wires in the loom to the idol control valve

If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

24Vdiamond

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 07:00:25 PM »
Hi, this is the real early start of injection so its a way different set up to the 2.0, this is more like the Astra MK1 GTE 1.8 and Cavalier MK2 which means you don't get and engine management light or oxygen sensor stuff we take for granted now oh and no ABS this thing is a mega basic 1.8L, everything almost seems to have its own little ECUs like the airflowmeter, idle control etc, I might try the earths as you point out and check the purge system but I don't think it has the traditional type that puts the gases back in to the inlet manifold to burn, its got new plugs but haven't done a compression check yet as the previous owner had had the head done, which I know is no sure thing! there certainly no back pressure out of the dip stick tube though
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

Dave the Builder

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2018, 08:06:58 PM »
If the previous tinkerers did not de compress and drain / free up the hydraulic valve lifters when they did the head gasket , you could have valves not closing , or a missing thrust washer or many other variables , compression test can rule this out.
is it possible to get the timing 180 degree out , but still line up timing marks on these ? i can't remember .

I had one with a sheared key on the cam once , timing marks remain spot on (but the cam was turning when it felt like it )

sounds like a bit of an oddball set up if factory uk spec (russelsheim gm vin code ?)
are you 100% sure it has not had a replacement engine from an astra or cav grafted to a carb engines loom ?
I thought all carlton mk 3 had abs
maybe its an import ?
what is stamped on the block as engine code ? (horizontal flat next to head gasket /no 4 cylinder )
If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

24Vdiamond

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 02:51:54 PM »
the cars only had 2 owners from new and ive known the last owner for about 14 years so I know the engine and injection set up is all origional, the fault develop on its own and not after any major works eg head gasket replacement so its got to be something simples!
the injection set up is Bosch L3 Jetronic with EZ61 spark timing system and ive managed to get the dealer testing info on some of it which should help narrow the problem down, I will also check the points dave the builder raised and hopefully I will get to the bottom of it
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

Dave the Builder

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 03:14:19 PM »
Good luck with finding the gremlin responsible ,
I just tried to give you a list of gremlins / thoughts worth considering to try and help out
some are quite obscure , but I hope it's a simple fix
worth checking all the fuel lines too, I remember a mk 2 with similar poor running problems,
 which turned out to be a crushed fuel line
(probably crushed during a bodged jack up )
but good luck and keep us posted  :)
If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

carlton_mad

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 09:39:35 PM »
Dont forget the cts (coolant temprature sensor)
what would life be like if we all drove fwd cars? feckin boring that's what rear drive or bust

Dave the Builder

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 12:26:48 PM »
Dont forget the cts (coolant temprature sensor)
first thing I thought, but he says it's been replaced (first post)
that said, you can't rule out a brand new part being faulty

and it's worth checking the 2 wire CTS has been replaced(near the alternator) ,
not the single wire temp gauge sensor on the thermostat housing

you can check the cts is working by testing it's electrical resistance
it should never be open circuit or closed (no resistance)
video clicky
If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

24Vdiamond

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 05:33:01 PM »
Thanks for all your comments & tips, so this is where I am, I have managed to get the dealer testing info which gives the wiring pin configurations on the 2 control units & sensor testing information, this is injection in its infancy as the ECU that controls the fuelling is part of the air flow meter but is removeable and then you have another ECU that controls the spark that talks to the air flow meter, in GMs blurb the selling point of this set up is "no penetration into the passenger compartment" !!! which means all the control units are in the engine bay
So far all the wiring tests out ok including various earths, the sensors test out ok which are the 2 pin coolant temp sensor, crank sensor and oil temp sensor, I have replaced the airflow meter ecu with a second hand unit, replaced the spark control ecu with a second hand unit and the fault is still the same!! I am now going to revisit some of the previous owners work staring with the distributor cap & rotor arm as im sure its ignition related, got one distributor cap screw out but my chubby fingers gave up in the cold so its a job for the morrow now
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

24Vdiamond

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 04:58:04 PM »
so nimble fingers in action I got the distributor cap off which is a pretty new Bosch item so that was nice but the rotor arm was a nasty looking aftermarket thing that had been on for many years so that got changed, the cap cleaned up and hey presto no change!!!
So I did a compression check out of interest and that's all good with all cylinders pretty close up around the 10bar 145/150psi mark, I am now starting to loose interest so I think its going to be an engine change, maybe 2.0 16v red top as I have a good spare hanging around
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

Dave the Builder

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2018, 07:01:38 PM »
Fair play
you'll probably find what the problem was when you've got the 1.8 more or less out  ;D

could always bang the 1.8 on ebay
the CORSA modders would snap it up
few quid towards the 16v conversion
IIRC Jonny A put quite a bit of info on here about a red top or LET conversion  ???
If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

carlton_mad

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 01:57:41 PM »
I think these have an amplifier pack under the coil take it out and clean all contacts and on the plug re do the heatsink compound and try again!
what would life be like if we all drove fwd cars? feckin boring that's what rear drive or bust

24Vdiamond

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Re: 1.8 SEH running issues
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2018, 12:32:29 PM »
Its been a while but still no joy! done a fuel pressure test which is spot on even took the fuel cap off just in case I was getting a vacuum, had a good coil and amplifier which I also tried, im still back to the airflow meter but without a replacement I can do no more, its eaten up too much time already but thanks for all the input and words of wisdom!


The aim now is to pull the engine but for the red top I need a 2.5/2.6/3.0/3.2 V6 flexiplate which is the correct crank fitment and im hoping the correct torque converter fitting

280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!