Author Topic: Dropped body - Road springs and noise  (Read 160 times)

djbthatsme

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Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« on: November 04, 2017, 06:57:08 PM »
Reversing the car onto the drive today and listened to the melodic sound of the car wheezing and groaning which was not entirely to my satisfaction.

I didn't get under the car or anything nasty like that but I did give my Carltons backend a good looking at - Not a pretty sight.
What I did find was that the O\S\R was lower than the N\S\R by about an inch or more and I couldn't pass my hand between the tyre and the bodywork.
On the N\S I could pass my hand between the tyre and bodywork leading me to believe that there is possibly a suspension problem caused by maybe
a broken spring. I remember that whilst on one of my international jaunts some weeks ago the car had come in contact with a pothole resulting in
a distinct thud. I didn't think anything of it until today when the above came to light.

Any thoughts fellow Carltonians?



0795omega

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 01:32:11 PM »
certainly sounds spring related to me?

chris

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 01:35:13 PM »
Sounds like a broken spring to m too.

You dont need to have gone over a big hole to do it, I;ve had a few and they just go when they are ready, nothing much you can do except change it when it heppens.
Quite an easy job on a Carlton.

djbthatsme

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 02:57:12 PM »
Thanks for your replies chris and 0795omega,
We all think the same re. the dropped body, the thing that concerns me is the noises that have also started to occur.
On the first occasion there were obvious screeching sounds implying the rubbing of metal on metal which only seemed to happen when the car was reversing. There wasn't any other unusual sound when travelling forward.

This as now changed to an unusual creaking-groaning sound when travelling forward which doesn't occur when reversing. There isn't any unusual sound when reversing and this as happened at the same time as the spring phenomena.

The noises could be related to the dropped body of course, which are going to be looked at tomorrow.

Your thoughts on this guys?

 

0795omega

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 12:27:34 PM »
apparently i read somewhere car mechanics magazine i think? springs are now one of the most common failure points on mots  mainly due to too many sleeping policeman i reckon? mind you if its one of its originals it doesnt owe you anything! lucky it hasnt took a tyre out with it on the back wall,sometimes happens! good luck with it djb.

djbthatsme

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 01:51:09 PM »
Thanks for your rely 0795omega,
I took the Carlton in today and the garage may have repaired the noisy problem with the car.
The findings, according to the garage, were that part of the handbrake assembly (springs, securing pins and washers) had pulled through the back plate leaving the shoes unsecured. With the hand brake shoes floating this could cause steel on steel contact causing an ominous screeching sound. The change to a creaking sound could be explained if the handbrake shoes moved from the steel on steel position they had been in to a different position.

The mechanic that delivered the car informed me that a washer was fitted to remedy the problem and it had been test run to prove its effectiveness, which  I have yet to verify. FYI the backplates seem to be very difficult to get hold of with one opportunist on Ebay wanting 100 less a penny for one.

The lowered body issue as yet to be finalised. Spring or not to spring I will keep you informed and as far as I know this would be the original unit.

 

0795omega

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 02:34:59 PM »
i had same problem with mine located a genuine new g.m backplate from www vauxhall car parts and spares.co.uk  about a year ago,cant remember what i paid but wasnt as dear as the one youve seen on e-bay! still havent fitted it as noise hasnt reared its ugly head again yet,but must admit as mines auto i leave the handbrake off + in park more often than not and that keeps the backplate soldering on i think! good thing about an auto.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 02:36:55 PM by 0795omega »

chris

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 05:36:35 PM »
Rusted through backplates are a very common problem.

Vauxhall ran out ages ago, for a few years they were available for one side from VCP, not sure now but worth a try.

Someone suggested that Omega ones might fit, looking at pictures they look very similar, especially the centre which is the bit thats important. Maybe worth a try.

Fitting these where they have put a washer can make the existing plates last for quite a few more years, however you cant get behind one of the positions on each wheel so if the other one pulls through you are back to replacing the plates, which isnt easy.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-shoe-Hold-Down-Washers-Girling-Type-Pack-of-5/252609662819?hash=item3ad0b58f63:g:BMwAAOSwHMJYE8LJ

DKT1

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 07:06:37 PM »
You can still get new ones but just the left hand side from Germany 60-ish + P&P
I wonder what happened to all the right hand side ones???
I've just ordered two lefts! so I can cut the centre out of one and spin it round and weld it back in, will let you know how I get on!
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chris

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 07:15:39 PM »
Hello DKT

I bought a pair just as you have, I havent fitted them yet but will in future.

I think from looking at them its not a simple rotate of the centre, but it does look easy, just make two holes and weld in a couple of those small discs I linked to above.

It sounds like you will be doing it before me so let us know how you get on please.

DKT1

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 12:15:24 AM »
Will do!
Carlton 2.0ltr Diamond Est

djbthatsme

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 04:31:32 PM »
Having read your replies I'm thinking of having the hand brake retaining pin washer welded to the rear of the back plate with the hope of retaining the integrity of the hand brake - at least for some time. I'm not happy with the handbrake because under pressure it doesn't function to the extent it should. Today, I was parked in a line of traffic on a hill waiting for the lights to change. The handbrake was on to its fullest extent but the car was slowly slipping backwards, so I had to use the foot brake as well to stop this.  Jiggling with the hand brake, footbrake, clutch and throttle at the same time under these circumstances is not the best situation to be in especially when someone as tried to park their car in your boot. They couldn't have got much nearer.

This also leads me to think that perhaps the brake drums are not at their best to perform their function adequately. I have a new pair which could well be fitted when the welding of the backplate is done and maybe a new backplate is also fitted.   

I haven't lost sight of the fact that the body as dropped at the rear of the car, so either one or two rear springs need to be bought and fitted. Its a 1991 2.0l Carlton CDX which I've had since 2003 and the springs have not been changed in my ownership. So the springs are probably the originals and perhaps the wisest thing to do would be to change both of them.

I've seen some springs on the net but was wondering whether you fellow Carltonians have a view on this.

Any thoughts are welcome.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 04:52:07 PM by djbthatsme »

chris

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 04:45:52 PM »
djb, if you arent replacing the backplates and just using those little plates there is no need for any welding for one of the holes on each side of the car, its fiddly but just get one round the back of the hole thats pulled though while fitting the pin and spring and they hold themselves in place. A few minutes work once the disc is off.

One of the holes cant be accessed from behind though so welding those plates on from the front is an option, I've done it once and its been like that for about 18 months so far.

Carlton handbrakes arent the best but they can work OK, if you are having some work done in there you could have new shoes fitted at the same time which will cost very little. The drums are part of the disc as you probably know and will cost more, the drums are rarely worn though so just a good clean with coarse emery before fitting the new shoes might do the trick.

djbthatsme

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 01:59:19 PM »
Thanks for your reply chris,
It certainly was speedy.
I hadn't finished writing the post yesterday before you had responded to me.

What happened was that having created a reply I returned to make an addition which related to the dropped body\ springs. Then it was brought to my attention that you had already responded to my post. I must say that was what I would call super quick.

It does make good sense to fit new shoes particularly when the existing ones were probably bouncing around in the brake drum when they became dislodged thereby causing the screeching sound that they did.

Thanks for the tip.

 

DKT1

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 04:24:38 PM »
The rear brake back plates arrived yesterday, had a real good look and a measure up and decided where to cut.
So today I cut one, turned the middle round 180 and welded it back together!
Made a jig up, to align it in the correct place before welding.
I now have a pair, just got to paint it now.
3 Hrs total work, including 2 tea breaks, well worth it.
Only problem was the wife went out shopping to get away from the noise of me cleaning up the welds with the grinder, so that'll be costly!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 05:29:00 PM by DKT1 »
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djbthatsme

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Re: Dropped body - Road springs and noise
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2017, 12:30:54 PM »
Some people you can't please DKT1, at least you got rid of the wife for 3 hours and you achieved what you set out to do..