Author Topic: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!  (Read 239 times)

Fonzypop

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Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« on: May 11, 2017, 11:53:26 AM »
Hello, I'm new on here, but hopefully you can help stop me pulling my hair out!

I've got a 1993 2.0 CDX auto, with 85k. It's got a vibration / shudder between 20 and 40mph, above and below that speed it's there, but less noticeable.

I've replaced the propshaft centre bearing and carrier (twice - first one was a febi one and quite soft which caused thumping when pulling away, second was from Vauxhall Car Parts and stiffer but has made the vibration / shudder worse). Also replaced the propshaft rubber couplings, round rear subframe bushes, rear gearbox mount, all 4 tyres with new Firestones, gearbox oil and filter, and I'm at a loss! Last night I jacked I supported the rear of the car on axle stands and dropped it into drive, you can see the prop oscillating around inside the centre bearing. I removed the shims from the centre bearing carrier and it seems to have reduced the vibration.

The rest of the car seems OK except a left front bush, a couple of steering linkage balljoint boots, and a small bit of welding to the backs of the sills. It's a shame as it's a nice car.

I've googled propshaft phasing and they all refer to propshafts having two UJ's to cancel each other out. How does a Carlton one work, only having one UJ? You would think that would cause the vibration.

Someone has mentioned ensuring the prop is parallel with the road, and adding / removing shims to achieve this!

Any ideas peeps?

Thanks

Steve

Dave the Builder

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 07:41:03 PM »
 Is the diff ok ? any play in the bearing ?
prop shafts are balanced , can you see weights or has it come off ?
is both half's the prop original to the car ?
i ask that because someone may have swapped the half with the center bearing on in the past (rather than replace just the bearing)
is the center bearing plate carrier the correct way up/right way round?

are you sure all the suspension joints and steering idol arm etc, are all free of play ?

If the above post contains spelling mistakes / grammatical errors / poor use of the quote function / a very weak retort, or is generally shyte; it's because I'm feked on a cocktail of drugs,homebrew and carb cleaner.sorry

Fonzypop

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 08:25:13 PM »
Thanks for the reply.
Doesn't seem any play on the pinion bearing.

The prop looks pretty original, and from what I can tell, all weights are present and correct.

I suspect the prop and centre bearing was original. It's a low mileage and pretty low owner car. The previous owner got it in 2012 with 50 odd tho on the clock. Prior to that, the previous owners bought it from Vauxhall and maintained it at Vauxhall. When I did the timing belt, the water pump was genuine. The previous owner literally ran it into the ground, the engine oil didnt look like it had been changed during his ownership!
The centre bearing plate is the right way round, with the lugs pointing to the front (I think), and the webs of the channel pointing down. When I pressed the second centre bearing into the bearing carrier, the bearing seemed to go a long way into the carrier before hitting the stop, and when fitting the prop the bearing carrier holes are a couple of mm toward the rear of the car. When I fit the bolts it pulls it back, but always seems to lie slightly backward. Another thing I found yesterday was a BMW site telling you how to fit the prop couplings, using the arrows on the circumference, to line up with the flange of the prop / diff / gearbox. My rear coupling has them, and the front does not. Maybe the front coupling is inferior quality.

Is there a right way and a wrong way to fit the propshaft couplings?

The suspension seems fine, i've had a good crawl about and can't find anything wrong, other than this issue, it drives really nice.

If anyone has any pics of their prop installed, would you mind emailing them to me at fonzypop@hotmail.com, just in case i've done something stupid on reassembly.

Steve


carlton_mad

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 06:01:39 PM »
Hi fonzypop a couple of questions
If you pull away sharply do you get a thumping from the rear?
Have you checked the distance from the front of the rear arch to the tyre on both sides?
And do you get excessive noise from the rear end?
what would life be like if we all drove fwd cars? feckin boring that's what rear drive or bust

Fonzypop

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2017, 08:55:56 AM »
Hi
No thumping from the rear,

I haven't measured the wheels but i will today.

There is no noise from the rear, no bearing or diff noise. I do sometimes feel there could be a bit play in the driveline, going from braking to acceleration

Fonzypop

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2017, 07:40:46 PM »
On Saturday I removed the new propshaft coupling between the gearbox and prop, and put the best of the old ones back on. It's better, not right, but better. The two new ones I bought differed in quality, and the one I removed on saturday seems inferior.

Steve

DKT1

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2017, 08:19:36 PM »
Are you sure you have the splines aligned correctly on the sliding joint, they have a master spline that needs to be aligned.
when the shaft is aligned correctly the triangle parts at either end should be in the same position.
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DKT1

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2017, 08:28:08 PM »
http://ecat24.com/opel/catalog/part/1/29/329/3078/32171/
Just thought!
You could check this to see that you have all the right bits in the right order!
Carlton 2.0ltr Diamond Est

Fonzypop

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2017, 07:47:28 AM »
Hi, thanks for the replies. I didn't think you could put the two halves back together wrong, as the 'master spline' is a double spline, and won't fit any of the other splines? I did mark it prior to splitting it, but if it's possible, it could be a 'tooth' or two out.

There is a place local to me that has a few scrap Carlton's and Senator's. He's got an auto that I can remove the prop from, so it's got to be worth a try.

Steve

Fonzypop

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 07:49:51 AM »
Daft question, but the carrier does press onto the bearing from the side where the spline is, doesn't it, IE the bottom of the 'U' in the section of the bearing carrier rubber is toward the rear of the car?

Steve

DKT1

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2017, 01:00:39 PM »
I think the answer is yes?
But if you click on the link I posted, it shows all the parts in order, you can click on the drawing and it shows an expanded version for greater detail.
Not sure if you can put the splines out of line, but worth a check if nothing else is obvious.
I've had a small vibration on mine since doing the prop bearing, but I think it's down to the "UJ" being a bit notchy and only does it on pull away.
Carlton 2.0ltr Diamond Est

PeterC

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 06:07:18 PM »
Wheels balanced OK ?. Sorry, just in case !.

And welcome to the forum.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

Fonzypop

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Re: Propshaft Vibration - HELP!!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 08:59:21 AM »
Thanks for the replies

I've checked the exploded view and I've definitely got the bits in the right order. The only bit I was unsure of was the position of the washer in relation to the big clamping nut, that goes with the nylon sleeve.

When you google / youtube propshafts, you come across something called phasing. This is where a UJ causes the output side of the prop to speed up and slow down during each rotation. It's normally corrected by adding a second UJ, that when installed parallel to the first, cancels out the 'phasing'. Carlton's only have one UJ, so I'm assuming this is eliminated by the centre bearing and rubber couplings. When I replaced the original centre bearing carrier there was no vibration, but there was a shudder / thumping when pulling away. I replaced the centre bearing carrier with a different make, that had a harder rubber, and the shudder when pulling away has gone, but been replaced with a vibration at speed. I'm starting to wonder if the genuine Vauxhall rubber has a specific rubber type / hardness that eliminates the vibrations caused, and the aftermarket ones are not quite as good. That would explain why DKT1 has a notchy pull away after replacing the bearing. I'm thinking about putting the previous bearing carrier back on.

Thanks for the welcome Peter, I considered wheel balancing, and the tyres were old, so I had 4 new Firestones fitted. They were all balanced, so I have to assume they are OK!

Cheers

Steve