Author Topic: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger  (Read 24050 times)

stemo

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2015, 01:22:51 PM »
Very impressive metal working there! I'm loving this thread  :)

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2015, 11:24:34 PM »
Thanks Stemo, I'm pleased that its interesting.

Sorry for the lack of postings, I've been busy with lots of things and in any time left continuing to work on the car as much as possible.
I'm coming to the depressing realisation that despite making decisions that save time where possible even if it means less than perfect results, its becoming unlikely that the car will be finished before the end of this summer. Ah well.

Anyway, a very small update today, there is a lot more done and to post, welding is done I think, the patch total is huge, pics to follow.

I spotted an electric fan on my estate spare parts donor car, turns out it was retrofitted to that car using original bits by DiploMatt when he had it.

The GSi didn't have an electric fan originally, just the viscous one, the oil cooler is in the place where the fan would fit but the was room behind it with some work to mount it.

I took it and the wiring out and put the kettle on, not for tea this time but to test the fan and switch.



I got the fan fitted, its on 3 rubber mounts, you cant see the top one but its there behind the bracket.





I was a bit annoyed at adding wiring after wrapping the harness a while back but I managed to get the wiring in in a presentable way and it all looks factory.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 11:27:15 PM by chris »

PeterC

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2015, 08:29:00 PM »
Leccy fan, been reminded before to do that. Necessary idea.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2015, 09:56:33 PM »
Its been a while, lots more work has been done but not much posting so again the post wont have all of the detail, I need to speed the thread up to catch up with the car.
I seem to be having a nighmare with Photobucket too, no idea why loads of problems or this post would have been posted at least a week ago.

Next the passenger side sill and associated bits.

The original sill was still there, minus what had rotted out of the bottom, then a cover sill was barely attached over the top of that with a few spots of weld and quite a bit of filler. I didnít do this I have to add.




You can see the heat marks from the welding on of the old cover sills here.


The wheelarch I put in in around 2010 to keep it out of the scrapyard for one last year is still sound but rusting around the edge as I never did stonechip it or regularly polish it to seal it, the car was just neglected for a bit longer me expecting it to be spare parts before too long anyway.

Of course the sill was rotten, so was the inner sill and the central reinforcement, oh and some of the floor edge. They were all replaced in reverse order.
 


It was interesting to discover that the sunroof drains exit into the front of the sill, obviously likely to be one of the biggest causes of sill rot, all that salty spray that gets thrown over the car on winter roads would drain into the sill and sit there festering all year round, what a ridiculous design.


You might be able to see a hole I made here and flared inwards to prevent damage, the drain was put through there to exit into the front wheelarch area in future. I might put some of those one way cats arse valves on the end that the rear pipes have in case theres positive pressure under the wheelarch.


That bit the drain was hidden in had a small repair


The way I chose to fit the sills might be a bit unorthodox and people might think its a bad idea, I bought full sills but for various reasons only fitted below the top edge.
Firstly cheapo pattern parts are rubbish, great as a starting point and on something like a Carlton where almost nothing is available, you have to be grateful for any panels at all, but still very poorly formed and poorly detailed, I just wouldnít trust them and donít want to end up with bad door gaps and too big rads etc. I also like to keep original metal where possible, it just seems right and cheapo panels are made of the lowest quality instant rusting steel it cant be a bad thing to keep the original stuff.If I just replace below this line all of the new metal would be below the sill trims too.

I think I create a lot of work doing it this way though, there were some holes to repair where the rubber seal rivets always start rot.





The central reinforcement was a right pain to do, first I put one of the closing plates in and clamped a piece of angle iron on to give a line to work to.



A piece of metal bent to replicate a piece of sill helped to set the height.


Itís a bit crude to be honest, not the best quality work but strong and rust free, I used a toothbrush to get a good zinc paint covering on the inside. You can see here that all of the seams have paint in them too, I marked through the plugweld holes I put in the new sill and painted around them, the new sill was rubbed down on the insode and painted the same way. 10 points to anyone who can spot the error I made though.


Front end



Sill welded on, quite a task with such a long join.



Central reinforcement plug welded from underneath of course. Closing plates drilled for grommets for waxing later.



Inside



A pic of the patch count tally for the sill and associated bits for entertainment.  It means there was 119 patches before starting that are and 148 afterwards, that includes the sill, inner, floor edge, closing plates, and the chassis crossmember that I think there was a pic of earlier.



More later perhaps.

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2015, 10:25:55 PM »
While the sill was off the inner sill where the crossmember was turned out to be rotten (of course it did).
The crossmember was a particularly nasty ďget one last MOT ď repair which I have to admit to doing myself many years ago. To be fair it was as good as the day it was done as it was protected properly but it was a quite shameful quality repair so it had to come out.



Not looking great from the inner sill side


What a surprise, the floor was a bit rotten too.



 
Where there was access this one was plug welded from above, you can see holes drilled ready, where not possible plug welded from below.





Deleted another of those plastic plugs in the floor with the repair and drilled and put it in above this crossmember so it can all be well rustproofed afterwards, you can see the added one in the pic.


chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2015, 10:31:49 PM »
I just stumbled across these before pics of the sill, posted in the wrong place but entertaining enough to post





chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2015, 10:55:09 PM »
Of course once I disturbed the sill closing plates that lead to the bottom edge of the inner arch and then the seatbelt mount area.

The usual process, cut out, make bits, weld in.













0795omega

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2015, 01:10:32 PM »
youre work looks fantastic sir! a lot of people would of dug around a bit on this paticular carlton and run a mile with the amount of welding required to it! well done for sticking it out bud.

A3LTR

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2015, 09:54:34 PM »
Some nice work there Chris ! nice to see another one being saved :)

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2015, 11:22:09 PM »
Thanks Steve



On to the drivers side sill, quite similar to the passenger side unsurprisingly.

Not many words, the pics will explain.



One sill removed and we have ...... a sill.








A pair of sills, both taken off the drivers side.














You can see the sunroof drain put through its new hole here.







PeterC

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2015, 10:20:33 PM »
When stripping my Blue Carlton estate I never did learn where the forward sunroof drain pipes come out from the car. Now I know why - they don't !. Thanks for that info, pity its true though.

I had removable sills too !. PSL showed my with a big pair of pliers. Seam weld made of sealer !.

Amazing work your doing there. Keep it up.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2015, 10:59:44 PM »
Yes Peter, some people seem to think things like structural steel work just needs to fool the MOT tester and nothing else.

Thanks for your kind words.



Next a door repair couldnít be avoided, I donít plan to make the car tidy and that means most of the doors can be left alone until any future decision to make it look nice.

You might have spotted in the pics above that the drivers side rear door couldnít be left, the skin flapping about like the sole of a tramps shoe.





Annoyingly I sold a near enough mint estate rear door a while ago for next to nothing and as only the top frame is different I wish Iíd kept it.
Good Carlton doors arenít all that common now and of course are a pain to transport and would probably need paint so I didnít bother to try to get one.

I did have another not so good estate door and took it apart to consider using the bits to repair mine but it wasnít good enough really.



There seems to be a few pic missing but here are a few of patching it up.

For the bottom inner corner it should have the end of this swage line, I cut a piece from half way up the donor door, slit into the swage and hammered it flat to replicate what I wanted, you can just see the closed up slit, welded later.


I chopped out bits at a time and made some repairs from new steel and also reused bits of the donor door.



Here that corner is in and so is some of the bottom, the purple paint gives the sourceof the steel away, the piece to be welded is also from the donor door but the purple is on the other side.

Bzzt bzzt with the welder some more and a bit of grinder noise.









For the skin I had bought a repair panel, that would be the third bought piece so far I think. I only used a tiny bit of it, a bit of a waste.



No pic without a bit of protective primer Iím afraid.



The scores on the door Ė I thought at this point that I had finished welding with the patch count now at 168.



24Vdiamond

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2015, 12:59:16 PM »
Great work on this, trouble is I just know that's exactly what im going find on the Diamond estate once I start the repairs!
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

PeterC

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2015, 10:08:51 PM »
Its inevitable. Even with these relatively rust proof cars its only heading one way. But I remember my first car - an Allegro. Gawd that was so rusty. The aerial fell out of the wing !. The Carltons are far far better than that. But Chris - what price would you put on this work if some one offered you the golden opportunity to do it for them on their cherished Carlton ?.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2015, 10:47:10 PM »
Thanks 24vdiamond, hopefully yours wont be as bad, its very unlikely to be this bad without you knowing about it, this one has dodged the scrapyard many times and was badly bodged many years ago in many areas. Most cars this bad haven't lasted until now. I bought this unseen in 2010 as a spares car and that's what it should have been. Most similar cars will be long gone.

Peter, what an interesting question.
Personally I wouldn't consider doing it for money, I work hard enough in my day job and I don't like doing anything twice, even doing the second sill was hard to get motivated for.
I also have more project ideas already than I have time for before I die so as long as my car tastes are relatively cheap and I have a job I would rather be working on my own cars than earning extra cash.

To give an idea of what it would cost to pay someone to do this though I worked out that on average to cut out accurately the hole, make, weld in and dress back each repair piece takes two hours, that's an average of the simplest flat rectangle to the really complex bits. Most repairs of course involve several pieces working together.
Now consider the patch total so far is 168 and you can see that the amount of hours is huge. Then consider all of the other work including disassembly, re-assembly, paint, and then materials and you can see that this kind of work will always cost many thousands even at the lowest hourly rate.

For a Carlton the only person I can think of that would take on this kind of work would be Derek at GM6, but I would bet that most people asking for a quote for this work from him would think it expensive when the quote was for many times the value of the car.

At a completely wild guess to do this to a car this bad and put it back together, repairing / replacing whatever vast number of broken things were found and including decent prep and paint and to pay someone with business overheads would whizz past the 5 figure mark in no time.

To either do this yourself or pay someone can only be done for the love of the car, it will never make financial sense.

That said for a more high end car such as a rusty LC which was complete and mechanically decent could work out because the finished value is 10s of Ks.

A couple of years ago I had the chance of an LC for around 8k, knowing how the market has changed I wish I had bought it and worked on it instead of this, I could have worked to a bit higher standard easily and had something with quite a high value at the end. Never mind, I like this one.

PeterC

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2015, 10:54:30 AM »
Well the kind of work youre doing is - priceless. But I had to ask. If I was ever in the position where I needed that much repairs I suspect I would learn to weld.

Makes me think harder about how to prevent rust as that is probably a lot easier.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

24Vdiamond

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2015, 03:00:15 PM »
rust prevention is good, its a shame I didn't do it when I got the Diamond!! it was only 2yrs old when I bought it what a dope I could have saved myself loads of work!!!
280,000 miles of 24V fun and slowly dissolving!!

Einarrson

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2015, 04:03:56 PM »
That's an unbelievable amount of welding and very tidy too!

Nice work!

djbthatsme

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2015, 07:47:10 PM »
It looks like you've taken a heap of rust and managed to turn it into a Carlton with a lot of hard work and dedication.  I take it that you're not married - or if you are this is your way of getting away. Good effort and well done. BTW I've just taken my CDX in and I've been frightened by the price and its no where near as bad as yours is.

 

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2015, 12:10:47 AM »
Thanks Einarrson

You are correct DJB, although when I wasn't single the cars were never a problem. As it happens the car has been much needed therapy for me during a couple of years that have been very tough in a number of ways. I've buried my head in this to have some positive focus.

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2015, 12:13:15 AM »
Its been a very long time since the last update, the reason is that I have been working on it in any spare time I can find at all and never found time to post. I wanted to get as far as possible before winter due to the car being in a garage away from home with no electricity or heat.

Iíve been quite successful as it happens, the car is way further on than the thread so now Im going to make an effort to catch up. I really regret not keeping the thread up to date, I should have posted a weekly progress post for extra motivation. Just feeling the need to post progress and also the feedback really helps.
Itís a lesson to learn for future projects.

Lets get the rot out of the way first, the welding is actually finished. In fact I finished the welding three times before finding more, very annoying.


I removed some more carpets from the boot to prep for paint and found rot in a rear shock turret, a bit surprising as the other side had been uncovered and found to be spotless long ago and I havenít seen one of these rot before.






I went to begin cleaning the floor inside the car and in the drivers footwell in an area that appeared spotless I found that it was rotting from behind where a crossmember is welded to it, so it got cut out and replaced.
No work in progress pics, I seem to have mislaid quite a few pics from this point in, not sure whats happened.



Once fixed I got on with cleaning up the floor and getting it ready for paint. Anywhere where I couldnít get all signs of rust off got rust converter, including spotweld indentations, thatís the row of black spots.




The discovery of the last of the rot and some impressive structural cracks wasnít until later, next I cracked on with getting paint on.
More pics asap.

djbthatsme

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2015, 02:27:28 PM »
Hi Chris, did you consider employing a photographer come script writer to document your progress? I'm some distance from you so I'm not offering my services. I was just wondering whether you've turned the corner of welding more of a proportion than whats left of the original. Those outsiders that aren't enthusiasts do not realise how much work and £££s go into keeping these and other admired cars on the road. In some ways I'm envious of you but I don't have a garage and must admit I don't have the motivation like I once did. What you have undertaken and achieved so far is commendable - keep up the good work. 

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2015, 10:58:41 PM »
Thanks for the kind words DJB. If only my Daughter was interested in Carltons she could have taken pics and notes.


A bit more, to try to catch up not many pictures which might make it not look like much work but in fact was quite a bit.

The floor had to be cleared on both sides, there are harnesses across the floor within the insulation on both sides and the ABS ECU lives under the passengers seat. No pic of the mess on the other side.



I relocated the ECU behind the dash under the scuttle, here you can see the plastic carrier relocated from the floor, wiring still to route.



Floor cleaned as required and some rust preventing primer added & seam sealer as required Ė Just a couple of pics -





No during pics, lost, but my idea for the floor inside was stripped of clutter but smart and body colour and just mats in. This was originally part of the stripped out idea which hasnít really worked out but I decided to still go with the floors, Iím fairly happy with it.
I stonechipped it all first, a couple of reasons, a little sound deadening, and no need to perfect prep as it has a fairly even stonechip dimpled finish all over which works really well.

After the stonechip was dry it was painted in body colour Astro silver base coat and 2K clear laquer.

 







You can see that the wiring had a lot of attention in the later pics, lots or rewrapping and rerouting to keep it all off the floor. Lots of nasty damage and old bodges repaired too. Much of the dash work is also done here.

More soon hopefully.

0795omega

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2015, 02:20:50 PM »
this is going to be one incredibly sorted carlton! well done on all your efforts with it.

chris

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Re: Carlton GSi 24v G624XME Scrapyard Dodger
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2015, 06:35:49 PM »
Just a quick one today.

While working on the interior I found the original delivery receipt for the car. Not important but interesting to find.




A couple of pics out of sequence, just yesterday but I was quite happy so thought Iíd post.

I wanted to add a couple of things to the dash and the car has the lovely retro digital dash with amber digits, I like it a lot.
I wanted oil temperature because from what I have read the cooling system on these is less than perfect, I know improving it would be a good choice but in the meantime simply knowing what the temp is will make sure I donít do any harm because if I need to I can always calm down a bit until it cools.
I also wanted an accurate voltage reading, a couple of car problems I have had recently have been much easier to understand with a voltmeter attached so Iím going to monitor voltage at the battery allowing me to check charge and alternator output at a glance.
 I decided that any additions would be better if they could match the dash. The car had a junk slot below the radio so that seemed to be a good place to put extra bits.
The idea was to have it look plain black when not in use, then the digits only be visible when the ignition is on.

I chopped up the junk holder, a gauge pod from chine via ebay and some bits of black interior trim.










Switched on viewed roughly from the drivers angle Ė



I might re-do it later especially if I want more bits in but hopefully that should be in keeping with the dash.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 06:40:06 PM by chris »