Author Topic: very wet rear carpets  (Read 12218 times)

alastair

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very wet rear carpets
« on: December 15, 2012, 02:35:59 PM »
Anyone any idea why my rear foot well passenger side is so wet, my guess is bad seal on membrane inside door, but any suggestions welcome!

Regards

Al
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PeterC

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 03:31:14 PM »
While I have been taking the blue Carlton apart it collected water in the rear behind the driver. I was scooping it out but noticed it died down when I seemingly unblocked a rubber lined hole in the floor just forward of the rear seat in a gutter like depression. Could there be a drain hole there or was it just coincidence

Now the car is turned round and the front is lower. Water collected in drivers foot well. But while me and Murph were getting the loom out we encountered a about 3 inches of rot on the join where the bulkhead meets the wheel arch at the top.

Now I have got the Dash loom unthreaded out of the engine bay I see similar rot into the wheel arch from the side of the car where it meets the bulkhead.

Hopefull though you merely need to unblock your scuttle drains. They will be full of leaves and compost. Its the area you can get your hands to where the bonnet ends (windscreen side) particularly round the hinge mounts where there is a plastic mesh about 2Cm by 5Cm which you can pull out (use finger nails to lever it from the edge).

The water should normally drop through this opening and run down rearward of the plastic arch trim and forward of the arch right next to the door trims.
UPDATED 17/12/12 - the above was not correct upon reviewing my blue Carlton.

The water should normally drop through this opening and run down a narrow void that is just inward of the wheel arch in the area where the bulkhead would otherwise meet the wheel arch. I thought this ran all the way to the bottom / near-sill but I cannot see light out of it (maybe blocked).

If the water cannot drop down this way then it builds up and gets in via the compartment ventilation fan which is hidden under the plastic trim at the foot of the windscreen (no need to go look there). If the water is getting out the right way then it can splash back in through the open door below (iirc) the bottom hinge. But, more seriously, through my aforementioned rust holes.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 01:51:59 PM by PeterC »
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

alastair

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 05:30:32 PM »
Hi Peter,

thanks for that, actually the vents are a bit blocked, unfortunately the plastic grids are long gone so you can imagine! I will try to have a good poke about though I hadn't thought they were responsible for the carpet as the front is relatively dry by comparison, but certainly a good comment and one that I must research further. I had thought it might be door skin lining as 5 series are notorious for this and the symptoms looked similar however the door all seems dry underneath.

As for rust, its a carlton so more than likely though I have everything crossed just for good measure!

Will have a poke about with the vents and see what happens!!

thanks again
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man of kent

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 07:14:24 PM »
The drain home in the floor is to let the paint out after paint dipping and usually has a sealer rubber or plastic plug. Make sure it is sealed correctly although I have never heard if one leaking. There are probably more than one as the car comes out of the paint at various angles. Carpet up and out I'm afraid to find these.

Dont forget the sunroof drain if you have one. Talking to Chris & Murph last week we established that on non sunroof cars the plenum drain has a continuous rubber pipe that exits under the car. However, when a sunroof is fitted the hose from the sunroof drain does not go uninterupted to the underside. It goes into a moulded rubber funnel behind the front footwell panelsl and if this gets blocked water pours into the front footwell.

Check the sill drains and if the rear quarter panel inner is rusted thru' water could find its way through.
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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 03:26:21 PM »
The drain home in the floor is to let the paint out after paint dipping and usually has a sealer rubber or plastic plug. Make sure it is sealed correctly although I have never heard if one leaking.

really? iv herd of loads... when they dry up in the summer, they crack, so when winter arrives with the rain, water just pisses in through the cracks, espeshly worse cruising along the motorway eeekk haha
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alastair

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 05:12:24 PM »
too much water for entering through floor holes.  I could keep a pet fish in there at the moment!
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Murph

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 09:59:42 AM »
I'm going to punt for a blocked sunroof drain.

melinx

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 10:05:44 AM »
Check that there is no corrosion or the grommet is unseated where the rear door cable loom comes out of the pillar; it's just possible that water could get in that way :-\

Pedro

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 01:03:33 PM »
I'm going to punt for a blocked sunroof drain.

Same here - when I bought mine, it did that the second day I had it. It was indeed, blocked sunroof drains. ;)

PeterC

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 02:05:32 PM »
Dont forget the sunroof drain if you have one. Talking to Chris & Murph last week we established that on non sunroof cars the plenum drain has a continuous rubber pipe that exits under the car. However, when a sunroof is fitted the hose from the sunroof drain does not go uninterupted to the underside. It goes into a moulded rubber funnel behind the front footwell panelsl and if this gets blocked water pours into the front footwell.

Ah - I am interested in that. On my blue Carlton (Estate with sunroof) there is a rather stiff white plastic pipe running down the side of the front footwells its behind the inner metal. I cannot see the top or bottom of them and one is a bit loose. Is this the pipe from your aforementioned plenum drain (or does that just open out on underside of car ?. Or is it the pipe from the funnel for collection of water from the sunroof (I assume the drain pipe comes down the door frame either side of the windscreen) ?. Is the plenum drain the bit under the plastic grille that I think of as the scuttle drain ?.

Just to add another question. On my blue Carlton there is a black flexible/bent pipe running backwards under the rear windows and down (just forward of the rear lights) to the lower panel where it exists behind the side of the rear bumper. There is one for each side but where do those pipes drain from ?.

I would also add that I have corrected the description I gave in an earlier post a bit. I fear that the front drain hole is an ideal place for rust to hide unnoticed and not easy to repair.

Once I have understood all this I might write up a how to on drainage and associated rust areas.

I worry about my Rioja Carlton as that is a bit damp in the front passenger footwell. Not as wet as when I got it but not really dried out.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 02:31:45 PM by PeterC »
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

Murph

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 02:25:22 PM »
Both of those sets of pipes are sunroof drains Pete.

PeterC

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 02:28:49 PM »
Both of those sets of pipes are sunroof drains Pete.

Wow. Do I understand that as all 4 pipes ?. Come to think of it one for each corner of the sunroof guarantees flow away regardless of which way the car is leaning on a slope.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

Murph

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 02:50:37 PM »
Yep!

PeterC

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 06:50:14 PM »
Thanks.

So to the plenum drain. Is this the chamber under that plastic 2Cm by 5Cm grill ?. If so does it indeed end up as a rubber pipe ?. I think on my Rioja Carlton below that grill was just about visible daylight/road - and if so is that my problem ?.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

entwistlecymru

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 10:57:58 PM »
This is exactly what happened on my old mans Diamond and it turned out to be a rotten bulkhead behind the N/S fusebox in the engine bay, visible when you take the under-dash cardboard cover thing out. I've just started stripping the dash out to rectify it :(. The front carpet was dry but the water had run down the footwell under the insulation and pooled in the rear footwell
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alastair

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 11:07:02 PM »
Thanks all, now praying for a blocked pipe so to speak, rather than sever rot!!

can I take it I will find the sun roof drain feeding into the drain somewhere behind the front footwell, I take it the carpet needs to come out to see it from the inside?
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man of kent

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 08:39:39 AM »
From memory, you just lift the edge of the front carpet, remove the footwell side panel/sill trim from below the IP by the hood release (rhs) and you will see a rubber/plastic funnel thru' a hole in the inner steel panel. Cannot remember if you have to take the ECU out. There should be a sunroof drain rubber pipe sitting in it. Poke something flexible down the hose or if you can get in there, pour a little water in the funnel and see if water comes out underneath. Then try water down the sunroof drain hole and see if it comes out into the funnel or underneath.

An air line is useful for clearing.

Murph may be able to correct anything or add to my comments. Did it about 20 years ago!
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Murph

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 03:08:10 PM »
Its behind the ecu. Otherwise correct.

alastair

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 03:58:51 PM »
and presumably the same the pasenger side?

Will have a look later when its pitch dark!!
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Murph

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2012, 06:20:24 PM »
Yes, it's behind the kick panel.

PeterC

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 08:57:31 PM »
From memory, you just lift the edge of the front carpet, remove the footwell side panel/sill trim from below the IP by the hood release (rhs) and you will see a rubber/plastic funnel thru' a hole in the inner steel panel. Cannot remember if you have to take the ECU out. There should be a sunroof drain rubber pipe sitting in it. Poke something flexible down the hose or if you can get in there, pour a little water in the funnel and see if water comes out underneath. Then try water down the sunroof drain hole and see if it comes out into the funnel or underneath.

An air line is useful for clearing.

Murph may be able to correct anything or add to my comments. Did it about 20 years ago!

Three questions :-
Does that mean the funnel for the forward sunroof drain is at floor level (I was visualising it being much higher  :-[ ?.
I assume the front pipe is white - on my J92 CDX it seems rather stiff rather than rubbery ?.
Do the rear sunroof drains just drain out without a going via a funnel ?.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 08:59:43 PM by PeterC »
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

Murph

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2012, 09:01:23 PM »
Not so much a funnel as a plastic grommet.

PeterC

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2012, 09:39:21 PM »
Rear one ?. I can believe that its a grommet as it did not want to budge when I tried to pull it out.

Yet to nose round the front ones.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

alastair

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 10:16:38 PM »
had a preliminary look in the dark. couldn't find drain pipe as such though there was a rubber (soundproofing) cover mounted on the bulkhead/wheel arch which I didn't get so far as removing due to time etc, certainly felt damp behind the rubber panel but then the whole car is damp. thing I can't get straight is how it would be so wet in the back, the car is virtually on the flat so struggle to think that it is coming through the front, plus front carpet is damp not wet. My gut feeling is it is something else. On hols next week so taking to the Isle of wight (fingers crossed don't let me down) and will have a proper rummage in daylight. in the mean time I knocked one of the paint drain holes out that keith was talking about, to drain the water out! so no longer a pond rather a marshland. Hopefully headlining will last the journey without wrapping itself around me  :-\
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PeterC

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Re: very wet rear carpets
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 10:38:05 PM »
The white pipes at the front (which I believe are the sun roof drains - subject to me being corrected) come down behind the plastic side kick panels (thats right next to the accelerator pedal on drivers side). Thats the panel reaching down to the floor just in front of the front doors. On the RHS(drivers) the computer will be in the way. On the LHS I think it might be more visible. They come down behind one layer of skin but are visible through the large opening(s) in that skin. The outside skin must be directly the other side of them. Iirc they are closer to the door hinges not close to the wing. Maybe find where they come out underneith as the pipes were fairly vertical ?.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.