Author Topic: Grundig 4870 - surface fault  (Read 18516 times)

Murph

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 10:33:40 PM »
I reminded Yas today. She says she has dug it out but forgot to put it in the car.

man of kent

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2012, 07:28:53 AM »
Thats great Murph. We can test it on my setup. If it doesn't work then its something else. I should be at Billing one day if I dont see you before.
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man of kent

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2012, 07:09:32 AM »
Spotted this and thought of you ;)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OPEL-GM-GRUNDIG-MCD-10-CD-AUTOCHANGER-CARLTON-LOTUS-SENATOR-OMEGA-/110904545734?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item19d26d11c6
There are 2 on fleabay. One is from a SEAT so is later. The Sheerness one I sent a message and the guy had it in a Senator (horizontal mounting) and has been out a while so may have the same fault. He would withdraw from fleabay for 50.
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nightmare

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2012, 12:10:01 PM »
Easy going untill PUSHED!!!!

man of kent

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2012, 12:58:29 PM »
Thanks. I'm a bit concerned that these units left unused may not work, so you need to know when it was last used.

Was it you got the Sheerness one on ebay? I spoke to the guy and it had not been used for quite a while, so didn't go for it.

Yasmin may have one for me later this week to try. It could also be I have a head unit or cable problem so this may determine whats wrong. Somebody said they would bring one to Billing for me, but cannot remember who!.......
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nightmare

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2012, 01:17:27 PM »
Thanks. I'm a bit concerned that these units left unused may not work, so you need to know when it was last used.

Was it you got the Sheerness one on ebay? I spoke to the guy and it had not been used for quite a while, so didn't go for it.

Yasmin may have one for me later this week to try. It could also be I have a head unit or cable problem so this may determine whats wrong. Somebody said they would bring one to Billing for me, but cannot remember who!.......

Yes I got it for spares cause mine is a bit beaten up and the door is broken, still works fine though so I'll swop the casing over.
Best of luck with yours Keith
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nightmare

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2012, 09:17:21 PM »
Message sent.
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man of kent

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2012, 03:45:08 PM »
Thanks to Murph, again, my Grundig 4870 is up and running with a 10 stack Murph had. Wonder what I should do with the one that does not work? Dump it or could there be somebody who can get them going again.

For those that want to fit a 10 stack in the loadspace on an estate it is possible to drill out the 4 dimple marks on the o/s floor panel and with great dexterity get 4 bolts up and through the holes & secure with nuts on the upper surface. The remains of the thread is then used to secure the frame. There is quite a gap between the floor and fuel tank. I've used 3 nuts on each bolt to raise the frame above the carpet and insulation. Presumably on the original there is a spacer fitted. Its such a fiddly job getting your hand in between the floor and tank that I dropped some string down through the slightly oversize holes on the front two and pulled the bolts up. You can get to the 2 rear holes easily.

Now got the choice of CD's tape or radio. Quite a battle getting there but all up and running. Thanks to all that helped especially Murph.
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kevinfourlegs

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2012, 07:45:44 AM »
Glad you had success Keith. I gave up and still using the single cd head unit. Must admit that I do miss the tape facility, but that is why I have the Aiwa hifi in the house.
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man of kent

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2012, 07:00:56 AM »
Oh dear. After getting everything working with the help of Murph and others, switched the 4870 to disc and up came "surface" message again. Drove off and after selecting various buttons, it finally came on but does not read all the discs.

So changing the 10 disc selector box in the back of the estate hasn't totally solved the problem.

The previous 10 stack had not been used for a long time and would not work at all. The one I fitted recently has not been used for about a month now, so I'm assuming that non use is a major factor in killing it. I'll see what happens over the next few days/weeks.
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PeterC

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2012, 11:42:14 AM »
Mine had little use, left in a cupboard for years (maybe 5) but drier than a car. That stil work(ed). Maybe yours will work after it has "warmed up". Seeing as the CD changer flattens batteries this may be the purpose for that.

I would contact Grundig (trying to avoid their sales arm) to see what the message could mean.

I would also try to borrow someones known working one. Also let them try yours incase the CD changer is a victim of some other (head unit or wire) fault.

Maybe if I used mine more it would come up with the same problem.
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RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

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Winky

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2012, 03:44:13 PM »
I bought what I was told was a perfectly working one only to find it wouldn't even open (got my money back). Mine often comes up with surface or just doesn't work & other times it works at the touch of the button. I believe its to do with the laser (age, tolerances) but finding anyone to service them is nigh-on impossible. With the head unit suffering more & more with the dreaded 'drop-out' I'm having to serious look at an after-market system.

melinx

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2012, 03:46:25 PM »
According to the audio manual, the "surface" message means that you have the CD upside down; since that is highly unlikely and that the discs play adequately in other players, I can only suggest that the lens in front of the laser has a film of 'dirt' on it, or the laser itself or the power supply to it is getting a bit weak.

Electronic power supplies and the amplifier circuitry invariably have electrolytic capacitors as a major component and these electrolytics have a finite life; they can be likened to miniature batteries which gradually lose their capacity because the electrolyte dries up :(

melinx

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2012, 05:47:37 PM »
I would contact Grundig (trying to avoid their sales arm) to see what the message could mean.

Incidentally, Grundig went bankrupt back in 2003 :(

nightmare

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2012, 03:35:13 PM »
Maybe it's a fault with the control box thing behind the glove box.
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Murph

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2012, 04:50:14 PM »
I have one of those, for testing purposes if needed, but the one in the car showed a fault with the old changer then instantly worked with the replacement one.

nightmare

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2012, 05:00:25 PM »
According to the audio manual, the "surface" message means that you have the CD upside down; since that is highly unlikely and that the discs play adequately in other players, I can only suggest that the lens in front of the laser has a film of 'dirt' on it, or the laser itself or the power supply to it is getting a bit weak.

Electronic power supplies and the amplifier circuitry invariably have electrolytic capacitors as a major component and these electrolytics have a finite life; they can be likened to miniature batteries which gradually lose their capacity because the electrolyte dries up :(

Can't they be replaced?
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melinx

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2012, 10:17:37 PM »
Yes, they can be replaced ! however one of the most annoying things about taking the trouble to replace them all is the subsequent discovery that it hasn't improved matters at all ::)

man of kent

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2012, 07:31:01 AM »
Tried it out for a few days and working ok. Seems it was just a glitch but I suspect it was because I have not been using it for about a month. Remember the original one fitted did not work at all after being left for a long time.

Keep using the 10 stack..............fingers crossed mine keeps working.
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PeterC

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2012, 02:00:52 PM »
Electronic power supplies and the amplifier circuitry invariably have electrolytic capacitors as a major component and these electrolytics have a finite life; they can be likened to miniature batteries which gradually lose their capacity because the electrolyte dries up :(

Capacitor plague is what I have encountered in PCs. Seems to be quite likely on PCs built 2002 to about 2008. In this case the caps actually swell at the end and/or lean over. Apparently it was an experimental formular for the electrolyte that was stolen from a Taiwanese firm and used by several other firms that make capacitors in good(bad) faith. Worryingly some people think these capacitors are still being off loaded onto the market. Grundig being German (?) might not have used one of these supplies and the radios were built 10 years before. But capacitors dont last forever anyway as Melinx says.

Its these kind of failures that make me worry about the various computers in the Carlton. How many people are relying on a ten year old (Windows ME or Windows 2000) computer let alone something from 1992 (windows 3.1 before windows 95).
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 02:03:57 PM by PeterC »
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

melinx

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2012, 02:18:43 PM »
Capacitor plague is what I have encountered in PCs.

It's not just PCs, my washing machine gradually strained more and more to rotate until it stopped altogether  :(
I decided to check the 'motor run' capacitors before spending a few hundred on a replacement; sure enough one of them indicated way below its stated value on my capacitance bridge.

A replacement capacitor (7 from Maplin) and it has been working fine for 2 years now :)

Many of the people who kindly take them away for you after diagnosing a knackered motor and selling you a new one merely replace this capacitor, tart them up a little and resell them as refurbished ;)

PeterC

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2012, 09:24:03 PM »
Many of the people who kindly take them away for you after diagnosing a knackered motor and selling you a new one merely replace this capacitor, tart them up a little and resell them as refurbished ;)

Blimay... No hold on a minute thats what some people do with cars  :o.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.

melinx

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2012, 11:03:15 PM »
Stone me :o is there a list of where these capacitors are secreted in various car makes: I could make a fortune :)

I bet you have to be in the trade to get the list though :(

                                                        ;D ;D

PeterC

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Re: Grundig 4870 - surface fault
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2012, 11:03:22 AM »
Stone me :o is there a list of where these capacitors are secreted in various car makes: I could make a fortune :)

I bet you have to be in the trade to get the list though :(

                                                        ;D ;D

Where. I'll tell you where. Every bl**dy where  >:(. Some of them I can (ECUs) I can see but cannot remoe yet. Seriously though the ECUs look sealed ?. That would make them impossible to diagnose/fix.

Is it only the cylindrical electrolytic capacitors that are a problem. I have been told that the all metal ones that look more like a can are better.

Black and decker tested a fast charger for me that they think is working. BUT they told me that my fast charger was sealed not repaiable so if it failed bin it. I got in - dud capacitor. I'll pm Melinx before hijacking.
1993 2.0 CD(X)i Auto Estate (Rioja Red very little tin worm & reasonable paint).
RIP - 1992 2.0 CDXi Manual Estate (Spectral Blue with far too much tin worm, now only parts).

Old age means wondering: Do I really have to struggle to become an expert in something I might never need to do again.