Best for killing rust

[Einarrson]

Some of the rust I repaired last year has started to bubble up again.

I didn't use any really decent rust killer when i did it. Can anyone reccomend some quality rust killining primer that might stop this for good?

[CamInHead]

www.bilthamber.com


they have a very good reputation but I don't know from personal experience.

[Pedro]

Best way to 'kill' rust is to cut it out and replace with fresh steel - although not always the most cost-effective method!

It is possible to slow the spread of rust down by sanding back, applying red oxide (if you can still get it?), priming and painting, then sealing the other side of the affected area with underseal or Waxoyl or similar.
Problem is, when exposed to the elements, all steel will rust eventually - it's worse on cars because of electricity and salt getting mixed into the equation.

I must admit to trying all sorts of products, some claim to convert rust to paintable steel again (bollocks), some claim to completely halt the spread of rust (knackers) and some to convert rust back to steel (total crap), but all have the same end result - none work, and they cost you!

[melinx]

I have used turtle wax rust eater jelly with fair success over a number of years

The problem with rust is that it eats into the metal and pits it, you need to remove all traces of the rust even from the pits, otherwise it keeps growing.

The gel is a pain to use and will need to be washed off and re-applied a number of times over 24 hours or so to eat all the black flecks of rust out of the pits; you will them be left with a uniformly grey pitted area of metal which should be OK for a decent etching primer coat.

Beware though, if the metal has pinholed through you will get corrosion from the other side unless you can treat that also

[Einarrson]

Cheers.

Don't think iull be cutting anything out so I guess ill have to try and get some red oxide. How come it's hard to get hold of? What's the next best thing?

[Pedro]

I don't know if red oxide is hard to get hold of, just that you don't tend to see it around anymore!

Well, I don't anyway.............

[CamInHead]

"It'll always come back, sure as eggs is eggs"

That's what I was told by my old-school (in the vain of Fed Dibnah) mechanic mate.

[chris]

Bilt Hamber Deox C and Deox gel.

Does what it says on the tin, very impressive, empties the tiny pits right out.

It sounds expensive but its worth every penny in my opinion.

You need patience though.

[banjo]

I don't know if red oxide is hard to get hold of, just that you don't tend to see it around anymore!

Well, I don't anyway.............

LEAD!

[Einarrson]

Red Oxide like this?   http://www.carpartfactors.com/acatalog/paint.html 

(5th from bottom)

[Einarrson]

According to my old man, red oxide is now on the dangerous substances list. He reckons the replacement thing is Zinc Chromate.

What do you fellas use for primer after removing the rust. Is there anything available which helps prevent future rust?

[chris]

Bilt Hamber also do very high zinc content paint, 90% once dry.
Ive used it but only recently so cant comment on rust prevention.

The tin is unbelievably heavy, suggesting the zinc really is in there, about 3kg per litre compared to 1kg per litre for normal paint.

I have lots of respect for their products after using the deox rust remover.

[Einarrson]

Do you mean Electrox?

Is it available in aerosol?

[chris]

Yes, electrox.

I dont think it comes in aerosol.

[Einarrson]

What's the next best thing in aerosol form?

[vauxhalljohn]

Ive often used fibre glass sheets once ive cut most of the rust out and sanded back to the original steel as this gives the fibre glass somthing to bond to . Acouple of layers and some bounding hardener and its an anti rust repelant .
Sand down to a smoothe surfacer , and then apply the hammerite primer , and then the usual follow on of body work colour paint . Dose a wonderfull job for small to medium areas , but i would not do it for larger more structual areas , that you will need good quality steel and a welder .

[carlton_mad]

Ive often used fibre glass sheets once ive cut most of the rust out and sanded back to the original steel as this gives the fibre glass something to bond to . Acouple of layers and some bounding hardener and its an anti rust repelant .
Sand down to a smooth surfacer , and then apply the hammerite primer , and then the usual follow on of body work colour paint . Dose a wonderfull job for small to medium areas , but i would not do it for larger more structural areas , that you will need good quality steel and a welder

be glad you dont have your mot's done at my place first sniff of filler and i look closer at other things

for example a guy brought an escrote van in a while back he had done a really top class job of filling his offside rear sill looked almost perfect till i got under the car one small bit of glass fibre hadnt been smoothed off properly i went into bloodhound mode and found a load more!!!

he ended up scrapping the death trap!!

[Einarrson]

I don't have any rust that severe I think.  There is a little in the front chassis rails and two spots on bottom corners of the rear window which needs some attention.

[vauxhalljohn]

dont worry , ive never gone ott with the stuff . Just on minor repairs or if i needed a quick fix . My first carlton i had to rebuild a 10th of the arch at the top were it meets the rear wing , it was my first body work repair and it was a decent repair , Passed the mot  a few months later . But you are like action man " eagle eyes "  .

take care mate 

[diplomat2.6]

A good way of looking at the problem could be this; Wait until you need a new exhaust and get a price from 'Quick'fit'. Then, don't go to 'Quick-fit' [obviously] but spend the money on a welder instead. Practice on the exhaust and by the time you've fixed it, you'll be nearly good enough to tackle bodywork repairs. Sheet metal is easily available if you look in the yellow pages.

I'm not convinced a used mig welder is that wise, however as DIY models [like SIP range] are about £150. I'm on my second as the first was beyond economic repair quite quickly. With new metal, the rust has to start all over again so you've got a few years before it comes again.

Good luck

[insaneco]

in regards to the red oxide/zinc paint debate on this thread - i have used "zinc182" with very decent results and most good building/farmers suppliers will stock red oxide for use on steel girders and the like

[Einarrson]

Yeah I'm using the zinc 182 and some stuff called Jenolite which is phospherous based.

[gazzg]

most Rust starts from the inside & is not evident until a small spore appears & then later a bubble. it all depends on where the rust is as some areas especially around windows & their seals are very difficult to deal with. the norm are bubbles of rust on door edges & wheelarches. most people just grind then finish off with a wire wheel in a drill, skim & paint. but you are only dealing with derusting on the outer panel. ideally you need to attack the other side of the panel also to give yourself a better chance of a good repair. i have used POR system with great results & a rust converter fluid which actually works better than all the others i have tried called vactan (available on Ebay) it's a rust converter & primer all in one & leaves rusty metal with a hard black glossy finish. treat both sides of your panel with this, skim & then prime with acid etch primer & then finishing coat.

for small blisters under car on floors/inner wheelarches etc de-rust degrease metal, treat metal with rust converter, then brush with seam sealer, paint, stonechip or waoxyl underseal. I find when using waxoyl underseal to give best protection give area a good coat of normal waxoyl first & let that go off for a day or two & then a couple of coats of the black waxoyl underseal. when this has gone off a few days later spray again with regular waxoyl. these methods are ones that i employ & with excellent results.