'92 K Carlton 2.0i CD in blue 135k miles

[ian]

just take the non cat one with you

[carlton_mad]

Thanks for the reply, carlton_mad - I could be un-lucky, It's a standard test certificate

The tests before the last one were all 'CAT test' ones, but the last test from this August was 'Non CAT' for some reason.

take the gas analysis sheet that you have with you to the next mot and explain to them that the engine was from an earlier car etc if they are half decent they will give the benefit of the doubt

[HMK]

Yeah, I was thinking of doing that.

The Cat may be OK, though I think it's borderline at 135,000(ish) miles. The CO was 0.51 - which would be 0.01 over the Cat test limit, but it'll probably be OK if it gets a good warm up at 3,000 revs for a couple of minutes..........my estate always passes & its an original 1993 Cat. I had a complete non-Cat exhaust system kicking about that would have gone straight on as a lump - I've fitted the back box from it anyway

This weekend I shall clean up all the brake pipe & fuel pipe & give them a coat of protective goo   It's got all it's original brake pipe, as has the estate car

[carlton_mad]

Yeah, I was thinking of doing that.

The Cat may be OK, though I think it's borderline at 135,000(ish) miles. The CO was 0.51 - which would be 0.01 over the Cat test limit, but it'll probably be OK if it gets a good warm up at 3,000 revs for a couple of minutes..........my estate always passes & its an original 1993 Cat. I had a complete non-Cat exhaust system kicking about that would have gone straight on as a lump - I've fitted the back box from it anyway

This weekend I shall clean up all the brake pipe & fuel pipe & give them a coat of protective goo   It's got all it's original brake pipe, as has the estate car

thats .31 over the base line figures are as follows all cars after 1994 .20 co <200 ppm hc and a lambda reading of between .970-1.30 but if it fails then it goes for a full cat test which then reads as co .30 and the rest abot the same as before

[HMK]

But that's for cars AFTER 94............This car is an August 92??

In 2003 it had a reading of CO: 0.09% vol @ 2542 rpm with a limit of 0.30% vol between 2500 & 3000 rpm.

The idle speed CO was 0.00% vol @ 852 rpm with a limit of 0.50 % vol.

This year it was  0.51 % vol at idle with a limit of 3.5 % vol.......that's why I thought it would be 0.01 % vol over a Cat test limit.............or am I getting it all wrong?

[HMK]

Just been reading something on another forum & I see what you mean about a BET (basic emission test) & a 'full' cat test. My Carlton Estate must get the 'full' cat test these days, as it is held at high(ish) revs for several minutes before it passes - he never does a print out, so I've no figures to quote on that one.

I thought it could be that the lambda heater had gone open circuit, causing it to require a bit of a warm up after it had been parked outside awaiting its turn - haven't checked it though.

[carlton_mad]

But that's for cars AFTER 94............This car is an August 92??

In 2003 it had a reading of CO: 0.09% vol @ 2542 rpm with a limit of 0.30% vol between 2500 & 3000 rpm.

The idle speed CO was 0.00% vol @ 852 rpm with a limit of 0.50 % vol.

This year it was  0.51 % vol at idle with a limit of 3.5 % vol.......that's why I thought it would be 0.01 % vol over a Cat test limit.............or am I getting it all wrong?

but there is  grey area between 92 and 95 some vehicles still were manufactured being unable to meet the emission standard which is why we can if given the option put an m reg car thru a non cat test

[REARSTEER]

once had a nissan primera with de-cat pipe in it and that was tested on none cat
because engine was older than k how do you thinck all the chavs get there 2.0l corsas to pass emmisions am a mechanic and have been on mot testers course cant remember exact legislation but any car registed k onwards with an earlier engine in will be a none cat test in my books mateys good look on theat one

[ecobwg]

Hi, the last test was at Alans test centre in Derby, who were trying to avoid moving over to the new system as long as possible. I doubt they'll avoid computerisation until next August though. I'd never noticed the non-cat test, we just looked at the bit that said PASS and assumed it was OK. It hadn't had a proper run in an age before the test though.

All the oil changes I've done used Castrol GTX Magnatec 10W40.

[HMK]

Hi, Yes, the test centre I use in Lincoln has so far avoided the computerised system. I'll have to go & have a chat with them & discuss those cat/non-cat options.

Cleaned  up all the brake & fuel pipe & coated them with a protective 'goo', so that won't be any more trouble, plus all the other usual rusty bits.

Remember I said I bet it would have at least one broken spring cos it looked low at the back - Yes it did - No problem, I've got various spare springs to match up a pair.

I can't as yet find anything wrong with the prop shaft. Went for a run round the block today & couldn't hear anything, but I've stuck a back box on & sorted that loose heat shield on the Cat. It could be that the gearbox wants some oil, as it's been spinning a bit out of the end. Interestingly, there's a receipt that says they had checked the gear box oil level, but the plug has never been out in its life, though they've had a good go at it with the wrong key & chewed it to hell - it'll come out with the chisel though!!..........I have other ways of getting oil into a gearbox if necessary - plus, I've got a good spare box that'll pop straight on if it comes to it. Like I say, I cant hear any fault from the drive train now, so we may be ok.

Gonna check the tracking next - I always do my own tracking, I don't trust garages to do it properly & they always struggle to get Carlton track rod adjusters undone. I can get it spot on with three bits of wood & a tape measure!!

Still love the car - great heater with that new heater matrix - what's that extra key for, by the way? Is it for an old steering lock that is no more??

[Scatmancraig]

Which MOT station do you use in Lincoln?  Would be interested sto hear what the result of your cat/non-cat enquiries are.  My car is a '93 Carlton 2.0 with an '89 GSi 12v engine in.  Previous owner said he got it tested as a non-cat car so i'm hoping that's what it'll be on their computer!!!

[HMK]

Haven't had chance to go in & talk cat testing yet, but I believe the place is changing hands sometime early in the new year - so we'll have to see.

[ecobwg]

It could be that the gearbox wants some oil, as it's been spinning a bit out of the end. Interestingly, there's a receipt that says they had checked the gear box oil level, but the plug has never been out in its life, though they've had a good go at it with the wrong key & chewed it to hell - it'll come out with the chisel though!!..........I have other ways of getting oil into a gearbox if necessary - plus, I've got a good spare box that'll pop straight on if it comes to it. Like I say, I cant hear any fault from the drive train now, so we may be ok.

Damn garages. Can't trust anyone, that one was owned by a neighbour 

Still love the car - great heater with that new heater matrix - what's that extra key for, by the way? Is it for an old steering lock that is no more??

Extra key? is it one with a black plastic handle bit or a Yale type? If its a Yale type one then its for the old roadside AA cabins they got rid of in the '80s and if its a little one with black plastic then its a steering lock we still have but forgot about the key. If it is the steering lock one can you hang on to it, it is a descent steering lock. I'll be visiting my friends again for new year I think.

[HMK]

No problem, I thought it might be from a steering lock - at first I thought it could be for some sort of car alarm as I've got  a key operated one on the estate.

I took that off side rear spring off this week & found that it wasn't actually broken, just that it had partially collapsed. It was very strange, the top several turns looked as if they'd lost their 'temper', but the bottom couple of turns were ok, yet when the spring was off the car it was about the same length as a good one. If I didn't know better, I would have said it had started off as a much longer spring & that it had had a blow torch on it to kill the temper on the top turns to make it shorter so that it would fit. A normal Carlton rear spring is a bit like a rugby ball or lemon in shape with small turns at each end, widening out in the middle. This spring was nothing like I've ever seen on a Carlton before, having the same diameter all the way down with a sudden bend to a single small turn at each end. If it wasn't for a part number & id letters just visible at one end & the word 'top', I would have said it was 'home made', with the way the ends of the metal are cut & then broken.

I'm sure it wasn't 'home made' & that it's either a wrong spring from a parts supplier or just a very bad after market 'copy part'. I'm sure it was fitted in good faith by the garage - £50 is about right for a 'pattern part' spring & £18 labour is quite good (unlike some of the other prices that garage charged - not much 'neighbourly' discount on some of them). They should have really fitted a matched pair, but after seeing that spring, you were probably lucky they did only fit the one!!

There is something in the paperwork about the other side needing doing & that one of the springs was the wrong type, but there's no bill for that side & the spring is fine  - I've now matched it up with another good Carlton spring so it should ride a lot better now.

Checked the tracking & it was 'toeing out' slightly, probably since they replaced that track rod end - nothing on the bill about re-setting the tracking after replacing the part, hence that front tyre! Garages again!!! The tyre was a bit 'soft' too, which wouldn't have helped it.

Feel free to pop in & pick up that key anytime - let me know first, just in case I'm out, you're always most welcome & if you come across anything else to do with the car, I'm always interested in its history.

Just as a last point of interest, did you ever take that drivers door card off to see what had happened to the window motor. It's been changed before, but there's something very strange about the whole mechanism, not just the motor (it was only held on the door by one rivet too!), but the other rivet holes don't line up - as if it's completely the wrong winding gear that's been fitted. Have you got the original winding gear or has it ever worked properly with what's in there? let me know on that one, Many thanks - still very pleased with the car

[Scatmancraig]

If you need a another window motor then i have quite a few knocking about!!!!  Ditto central locking solenoids!!! 

[HMK]

Thanks for that Craig

The motor seems to work fine  - it was just disconnected at its plug. It's the winder mechanism itself that's the trouble, it's all bent & twisted & the ball pins are pulled out of their nylon runners. I looked at it a couple of weeks ago & stuck a nut & bolt through the whole lot to stop the window from dropping down as you drove along!!

I've got the mechanism from an earlier car that I broke up, but it is a bit different in various ways. I'll probably take the door card off tomorrow & take the whole lot right out & see what's really gone on with it & see if I can use the bits I've already got.........then I'll perhaps have to come & see you - thanks once again for the offer

[Scatmancraig]

When i converted my Senator to electric windows (Police ones have wind-up windows!!) i made the mistake of using cheap rivets, when one of the runners popped out, the whole lot jammed & every single rivet popped out.  I took the whole lot out, straightened the mechanism & used better quality rivets on re-assembly.  It's been working fine since! 

I reckon the Carlton & Senator must have the easiest mechanism going, i converted the whole car in a couple of hours!!

Just let me know if you ever need anything & i'll see what i've got.  It's mainly all Senator stuff but most of it will fit a Carlton!!

[HMK]

Yes, the previous owner said that the window had stopped working in the down position & that he had pulled the glass up by hand to close it & thought it had come off its runners.

This would have been fine & at first I thought that this had caused the rivets to come out, but only two of the rivet holes line up with the holes in the door so it can't have ever worked properly & there's no service record of that door window having been worked on, but it obviously has...........it's a mystery

[Scatmancraig]

If my memory serves me correctly then i think that i had to bend my mechanism slightly to line the holes up.  There are 2 different types but what the differences are i don't know!  Think it's something to do with the position of the wiring connector as they were in different places on the car i broke (a G-reg 2.5) and my L-reg 24v.  Still managed to adapt them to fit though by unclipping the wiring in my door & re-positioning it.

I suppose it might be possible that yours has one out of another vauxhall.  I'd take the whole lot out & start again, at least you know it'll be done properly when you put it back together!!!

[HMK]

Yes, that's the plan - I'll know better once I've taken it right out.

I've noticed that difference you mention between the two types I've got - & have seen in the past.

[HMK]

Well, the window is now sorted.

It was completely the wrong mechanism that had been.....er....fitted, so it can never have worked with that installed. Fortunately, the mechanism out of a spare door I've got was exactly the correct one for the job & fitted straight in. It certainly does throw you when a wrong part has been fitted, it was something I wasn't expecting.

Interestingly, when I needed a motor for the same door on the estate car earlier in the year, I got a mate who was working at a breakers yard to get me one. He got a complete unit with the winding mechanism. The motor was ok, but the rest of the mechanism was nothing like the right one for the car. So, I changed the motor over onto the original winding gear (which is really the best way of doing the job). That winding gear is also not the same as on this saloon, so that makes at least three different mechanisms for the same door type on the same car type & only a year or so apart in age.

I need to replace the door speaker & even they are not the same between cars. The spare door speaker cut-out is different & the holes for the mounting screws are in different places. I've modified the replacement speaker pod by cutting it down & re-melting the two halves together with a hot iron & re-drilled some fresh holes - even the connections to it are different........So, there are many differences between the models, even of the same type!

It is a truly lovely car though, & other than some very small scratches, the dark blue (kings blue) paintwork looks as good as the day it was made. This, of course, is the result of being garaged all its life by a careful owner. There is some rust beneath the skin, but garageing can't guard against everything with all the salt etc. on the roads, but nothing that can't be sorted......To sum up - a car well worth saving

[ecobwg]

Hi Phil,

The drivers door card may have been off before for attention to the lock, but never in our ownership for the window mechanism. It did always work beforehand but needed the override button for the safety stop depressed at same time. I'm not sure if it was touched under warranty before we had it or whether it came from Russelsheim like that.

My comnclusion on that garage is that they were fine working on small french cars and Citroens but not technically knowledgable or equiped for big german saloons.

The window gave up on the M6 and then I went into a really heavy cloudburst and was getting totally soaked so had no choice but to pull it up.

The paint finish got regularly polished throughout its life.

[HMK]

Hi Barry,

Thanks for the info.

That is quite amazing as it had the wrong winding mechanism in it. It was only held in place by one rivet & only one of the other holes would line up with the holes in the door frame. I put a nut & bolt through the other hole just to keep it in place till I sorted it out properly. I found the head of another rivet stuck at the bottom between the membrane & the door frame, so it could have had two holding it at one time. The wiring plug was also disconnected from the motor - this must have pulled out when it all came adrift. With only two out of the four holes lined up, the motor was at an angle & although it would try to wind up & down it couldn't as the winding arms were somehow wrong. The door membrane was all taped up with masking tape, so it had been apart before, plus, there were the remains of other drilled out rivets inside the door. It sounds like a pre - 1995 bodge by an un-known garage of the first owner & you've had to suffer it not working properly for the past ten years.

Well, the Carlton estate is now off the road to have its new petrol tank fitted plus some other bits & pieces so the Carlton saloon has been on the road properly since just before Xmas. The car I broke up during the summer has so far donated all the parts required to sort out the saloon. All the little niggley faults have been fixed like the sun roof switch, glove box latch, heater control lamp, interior lamp, drivers door window, drivers door speaker, re-connect rear speaker plug, repair the radio panel display (thanks Mezzy), replace headlamp wiper, replace front tyre, fit rear spring, fit rear exhaust, repair centre box & cat, clean & oil all the brake & fuel pipes, waxoil various chassis bits, replace the battery.

Now that may sound like a lot of bits & pieces, but all the parts (other than small dash lamp & radio front) were from the broken up car, so it hasn't really cost anything to sort out as such & with having all those spare parts to hand has made it well worth spending the time on. I've done quite a few miles in it over Christmas & it runs perfectly. There is still a 'drone' from the back somewhere that comes on the faster you go. I think it's the diff (though it's not the usual diff type whine), but I can't find anything else wrong with the drive train - I'm not bothered about it at the moment as it's not that bad. There is still a rear window motor to sort out (I've got two spares), but I'm not bothered about it at the moment. The one thing I didn't keep from the donor car was the any of the rear glass, ie, door window glass etc. The rear doors were rotten anyway, & as the saloon doors are different from estate doors, I just kept the window & lock mechanisms - didn't know I was going to get a saloon - lets hope I don't need any glass!

Drop by in the new year, Barry, & see how we're getting on & pick up those keys.

All the best for now - Hope you had a good Christmas - we did this end (lots of food & drink)

Cheers,

Phil.