Senator Dash into Carlton

[Diplo-Matt]

Iv just purchased a senator dashboard to fit in my carlton so i thought id start a thread on how to do it. It's a common up-grade and has been done once or twice before by a few guys on the forum. 'Apprently' it's a suprisingly easy task, the main gripe with it is getting the heater to blow warm. This is due to the climate control that the sennys have as standard. It works through some fancy electrical motors which open the air flaps just below the matrix and allow hot air through until the desired temprature is achieved. On carltons a simple slider allows the heat through.
 
Tonight i dug out my 24v senny ex-police loom, and also the immaculate matrix which it had fitted. Im not an electrician and the amount of addtional wiring need is just immense, therefore im going to try and devise a rod arrangement using the carlton mechanicals and the senatr facia.

Im using a non air-con senny console. My intention is to use what would be the blower as the slider to open the heater flaps. I will relocate the the blower switch to lowe radio slot. I will cut a slot in the walnut cover panel and fit the carlton - roller type heater switch. Then, either side of that il fit the carlton style air-con and re-circ switches. That means i wont have to do any chopping and soldering of the wire to for those switches.

I have taken some pics, but they wont upload. Il have another go tomorrow. If anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Matt

[Murph]

When I do mine I'm planning on using a standard carlton air box and graft in a cable-pulling heat adjuster knob from a vectra.

I reckon I should be able to graft it into one of the heater adjuster positions with a bit of inventiveness and a glue gun.

The other problem you might have is that the senny console doesnt allow the fitting of as many switches above the stereo so you may not have room for the aircon and recirc switches.

It's never straight foreward is it?

I'll be following your progress with interest.

BTW it turns out that your senny dash used to live in my spare bedroom - small world eh?

[Diplo-Matt]

Received the switches today Murph.  Thanks a lot - Cant wait to get them in. Il send the two carlton ones up asap.

Cheers
Matt

[Murph]

No problem Matt - they will fit in the Carly dash for testing, other than the headlight switch of course.

[Diplo-Matt]

I just noticed there's no heated switch in the box you sent. Am i right in thinking your not able to do these?

[Big Rod]

Received the switches today Murph.  Thanks a lot - Cant wait to get them in. Il send the two carlton ones up asap.

Jeez Murph!! You don't mess about do you!?!?!??! 

[Murph]

I sent you a PM about that - the heated seat switch is different in the carlton and senator ones cant be used.

You were going to send me yours to do.

Or did I leave out the heated rear window switch? - if so then DOH! I apologise alot and will send it on!

Jeez Murph!! You don't mess about do you!?!?!??! 

Nope!

[Pedro]

I did a basic 'How To' here...... http://totalcarlton.com/forums/index.php?topic=839.0

[Diplo-Matt]

I thought you did Pete, but couldn't find  it. Oh well, il try and improve on it here with some pics etc.

Murph - Your right, il send you the heated seat switch and yes the rear screen switch is present. Hopefully crack on with car next week.

[Big Rod]

I thought you did Pete, but couldn't find  it. Oh well, il try and improve on it here with some pics etc.

Murph - Your right, il send you the heated seat switch and yes the rear screen switch is present. Hopefully crack on with car next week.

Sorry! 

I thought I'd sent all the switches to Murph!!

[jonnybear]

good luck mate, aint such a bad job to get the dash out, hmm when i took my dash out, i found it easier to remove seats (one is enough), then theres plenty of room, plenty of time and patience is the way to do it,hth jonny

[Murph]

Sorry! 

I thought I'd sent all the switches to Murph!!

You did Rod, but the Senny switches wont work in the Carlton as they are completely different.
As I dont have any spare seat switches Matt is going to send me his and I will mod them and send 'em back.

[Whippit]

Got a spare senny seat switch if required

[Big Rod]

You did Rod, but the Senny switches wont work in the Carlton as they are completely different.
As I dont have any spare seat switches Matt is going to send me his and I will mod them and send 'em back.

Ah now I understand!!

[Murph]

Its the Carlton ones that are needed John

[Whippit]

Doh.....might have 2 of them but not sure. I'll have a dig

[Pedro]

It's not hard to use the switch base from a Senator, and wire it to the Carlton loom - IIRC, all the wires are the same size and colour, just set out a bit differently due to the Senator's being half-width.

[Diplo-Matt]

I need to crack on with the dash this week before i go making any decisons on where everythings going to go. Do you have a senator heated seat switch then murph? I thought you hadn't? The dashboard i have looks to be out of an ex cop-car so i thoought Rod may not have had a switch? Like i mentioned before the  carlton air-con and re-circ switches will be relocated to the pod below the stereo along with the blower switch from the carlton and then what was the blower dial in the senator will open the heater flaps. I may stick some tweeters in place of the temprature controls also?

Anyway. so far iv undone the transmission tunel, and the screws along the top of the dash. Where next? In the footwell i presume?

[Pedro]

(Presume you mean the Senator dash, mate)
Some screws in each side of the dash, couple under the ashtray and the odd one in the footwells.
There might be a big steel strap in a plastic sheath that bolts tthe steering column to the gearbox tunnel, M8 bolts (13mm heads).

Fink that's it mate.

Might have a pair of switches and the switch back for the Senny aswell, if you're passing

Oh, while I think about it - when you come to remove it, be VERY careful with the heater ducting at the centre, face-level vents, as it crumbles. Gaffer tape comes in handy

[Diplo-Matt]

Might have a pair of switches and the switch back for the Senny aswell, if you're passing

You mean iv got some of you switches? Need to crack on with it this week. Just haven't had chance lately with work

[Pedro]

Might have a pair of switches and the switch back for the Senny aswell, if you're passing

You mean iv got some of you switches? Need to crack on with it this week. Just haven't had chance lately with work

No, I have some - didn't you need some?

[Murph]

I have the senny ones Matt - I just didnt know you could use them.

[Pedro]

I have the senny ones Matt - I just didnt know you could use them.

You can Mr. Murph, but you need the switch back - you know, what the switch plugs into. IIRC, needs some wiring mods, but nowt drastic!

[Murph]

Aaah right - with you now Mr. Pedro.

I'll hold fire for now as I know that Matt doesnt have the switch back - I removed that dash from the donor myself - but if it is needed, it's here waiting.

[Diplo-Matt]

Made a start this weekend on the dash. Between 1:30pm and 4:30 i had the old dash out and the senator one in place but im far from finished. If it wasn't so cold i reckon i would have carried on and got it done but i stopped because i want it spot.

Il explain the problems iv come across, sorry it's long read but you need to know this stuff if you want to do it properly.

Heater ducts -  There's loads of them basically and they aren't compatible. The senator matrix box (the big black box that house's the matrix) has different shape ducting connections to the  carlton. I didn't really notice until i'd got the entire senator dash board back in place. This wouldn't have been an issue but the ducts to the doors on the senator are narrower and shorter (remember im using a senny dash with carlton ducts), thus they make the speedo and glovebox very tight for space to the point you have the squash the ducts. Also the drivers side door ducts stick out the side of the dash where the vents are so i've cut it back slightly. The ducts for carlton are round on the ends. on the senny they are ob-long. This means they dont marry up with senny vents. The way to avoid this problem is to swap the entire matrix box for a senator model. Unfortunatly by the time id realised, id already fitted the dash so balls to that. Instead il leave it as it is for now and modify the carlton ducting which should be fine if done properly. Also the ducting to the rear centre console requires a senator peice which i dont have. From what i can figure out it goes up to the centre console vents and a piece must run back down to the rear console...i think..but the peice seems to be missing.

Fuse Board.
The carlton fuseboard fits fine but the relays which sit behind it dont. On the senator they are mounted on a differnt chassis so fit differently. Basically the solution is to gay about swapping the chassis over or cable tie it in position...iv cable tied mine...

Heater.
Ah the heater problem. Well the temprature is controlled by dashbard slider which to my suprise is a variable resitor with the same connection as the non ecu temprature nob on the senator. So in theory that should just plug on. Wel see....

Seat switches
I need to wire these back in place as one plug - Il send you a switch murph for LED'ing.

Glove box.
Very tight for room because of the heater duct and wiring loom

Pictures
Il upload them when it's done with a step by step guide. It really isn't such a big job. Just make sure you have everything and take your time.

Left to do;
Fit horseshoe
Fit underfloor horseshoe heater venting if i can find the part.
Fit floor ducting
Fit centre console and switches,stereo etc.
Fit steering wheel -  Cant really forget that.
Fit speakers - different chassis to carlton, larger holes which means by JBL's wont bolt it.
Cable tie loom in place

Now.....the senny dash has come out of late model ex cop car, my carlton is a j-reg civvy with air-con. So it could be that the age gap explains why ducting etc dont marry up.

Hopefully have it finished by mid-week with pictures etc.