CARLTON DIPLOMAT 1993 , A WORK IN PROGRESS

[Scatmancraig]

Regardless of whther you are doing the work yourself or paying someone to do it for you, the main point is that you are doing what you can to keep your Carlton on the road!! 

Keep it up!!

(says the man who scrapped a Carlton this week, but parts removed from it are already being used to keep other Carltons running!!)

[vauxhalljohn]

ok at last , MY HEATERS ARE WORKING AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!

And i have a complete set of working new discs and pads , It has taken the lads at Tanvic Grantham , All day to sought it out and they have done a really fantastic job .  The head mechanic was under alot of pressure as he hardly had any staff  and work was getting overloaded .
So to say they have worked my carlton a treat is an understatement , I recommend them to the local boys if your ever in the area .

They even gave the car a thorough going over and have found some things which need soughting out in the future .

+++++ advisory items ++++++++

1. n/s/r spring broken & o/s/r spring broken

2. Rear callipers corroded and rotten ( i Had an Idea these would need replacing  )

3. Rear hanbrake shoes need replacing

I also need a set of new tyres before the winter , but i will get them next month and i need a new heavy duty battery.

apart from this , i`m happy to plod on and get it all done a bit at a time .

[Dave the Builder]

When is your mot due ?
rear springs will need to be replaced before then.
Rear callipers corroded and rotten ?? how does that work if you just had new brake pads fitted ?and why did they not fit new shoes when they had the brakes apart ?

[Scatmancraig]

1. n/s/r spring broken & o/s/r spring broken

I can possibly help you fix those, common Carlton/Senator fault.  My guess is that they are both broken at the bottom.  My Senator was just the same when i first had it.  I have a pair of heavy duty springs that were removed from the Hybrid.  They are in good condition, let me know if you want them!  I can fit them for you cheap as well, i've had plenty of practise in the past!

2. Rear callipers corroded and rotten ( i Had an Idea these would need replacing  )

I can also help with these, i have 2 spare pairs (i think).  Although you can probably get away with removing the old ones & giving them a good clean & some proper caliper paint.

3. Rear hanbrake shoes need replacing

I haven't got any of these, although they shouldn't be too expensive.  Bit of a pain to fit though!!

[vauxhalljohn]

Cheers craig , Its a great help to know that you have all the bits needed and i will be very interested . I will have to make an effort to get over to you and see what we can sought out . Let me know what kind of money you would like for the parts . I think i will just replace the callipers instead of refurbishing them . 

The MOT is not due untill next june.

[Scatmancraig]

Cheers craig , Its a great help to know that you have all the bits needed and i will be very interested . I will have to make an effort to get over to you and see what we can sought out . Let me know what kind of money you would like for the parts . I think i will just replace the callipers instead of refurbishing them . 

The MOT is not due untill next june.

Tenner for the pair of springs, tenner for the pair of calipers.  Although check your calipers first as mine might not be much better!!  Just pop over one day when i'm in & we can talk Carltons!!

[vauxhalljohn]

   thats a promise mate , just make sure the kettles on .

Will arrange a date before the oxford meeting so i can get the car soughted .

[HMK]

I agree with what you say about the calipers........I've never known calipers rotten - they're a great, thick casting, for goodness sake A bit of surface corrosion is normal

Yes, should have done the shoes with the discs

The springs would have been broken at the bottom when it was last tested - obviously a blind or slack tester Don't worry about it, they're unlikely to go anywhere if it's just the bottom third of a turn .............you'll just have to make sure you use the same bloke next June, otherwise you may find it fails on a few other bits that were missed last time

No, to be fair, although my tester would spot something like a broken Carlton rear spring (he knows the model well), I know a lot don't seem to. It's not easy to spot unless you know about this Vauxhall weakness & look for it specifically

[vauxhalljohn]

since the mot in june , i have covered over an extra three thousand miles . And that was a journey to the deep depths of cornwall and back , and then to liverpool and back . Plus the roads around grantham are pretty nackered and i was always breaking anti roll bar links on my cav due to the poor roads arond this horrible little town  .

So iant suprised the rear springs have finally started to show wear and tear , never mind if it needs doing it needs doing . Just to keep the old girl going , plus i have not had much difference in driving stabiltiy  , so it cannot be really critical for imediate change.

[carlton_mad]

the pigtail springs are a pain in the arse personally i would just cut the "break" off and paint the end with some hammerite as long as the springs are the same length it shouldnt be an issue however being an mot tester i will say that it should be a fail

[vauxhalljohn]

okay just a little up date to take back all the praise i gave tanvics for doing such a fine job , I`ve had to take back all i have said . The basterds have totally screwed up my rear breaks and it nearly cost me and my wife our life last night     .

I started to notice brake binding on monday and then a horrible sreetching sound comming from the rear of the car , and then a claping slapping sound while i was driving . Then i couldnt put the handbrake on as it was so tight . And while driving the rear brakes would just come on when they felt like .
So yesterday i phoned tanvics while i was at work and told them the problem , they advised me that its probablly just the hand brake needs adjusting and nothing to worry about . So i said that i fininshed work early on a wednesday and will bring it in for them to have a look at when on my way home , and they agreed to look at it and put the problem right.

So i took her in on the way home , took my details and problem with the car , took the keys and then kept me waiting for half an hour and not even having a look at the car . So after half an hour the helpfull bloke on reception then tells me they cannot get me seen to as they had a major problem with one of the other  jobs in the garage , So i asked to get mine to soon as and arranged friday mornning and was told it will be perfectally safe to drive the car the way it is .
Oh and how wrong this was ! , After picking my wife up from work while it was pouring with rain , dark and blowing with gail . I told my wife i wanted to take a trip down the A1 to give the battery a bit of a charge up , So we made are way towards the A1 past the industrail estate  and then Bang the rear brakes locked up and before we knew it we fishtailed and thrown to the other side of the road bearly missing on comming traffic !.

Shocked but not hurt , one of the other drivers had stopped to make sure we were ok seeing that she had just missed hitting us . We thanked her for stopping and then phoned the AA as the gear box was in safe mode and my battery was failing . So i stood in the rain for half an hour waiting for the very nice man in the yellow truck  while my wifes mum had turned up in the disco and was looking after the wife . The car was paked up on a blind corner , battery dead , so i put my hi vis on and guided traffic past .

AA turned up , put the rear up in the air and towed me home . He then advised me not to use the car untill the brakes are soughted out and i should get tanvics to get there bodge job corrected with out any extra charge , so i am taking the day off work and i`ll be giving tanvics a good remanding and if they try to shift the blame back onto me or make up some other excuse thats its not thier fault , I`ll phone there head office or ask the AA for further advice .
But they will have to come and collect the car as i aint driving it no where and they will have to paye for the truck to fetch it , as i have already paid them once for the work and i aint paying any more to them .

Sorry to have gone on a bit , but i aint slept well atall last night so i need to rant .

[Murph]

And why not?

I would!

[vauxhalljohn]

  thanks murph .

[vauxhalljohn]

Got the car back this after noon from tanvics , the final conclusion was a broken spring on the handbrake shoes . which was probably done on the reasembly of the discs . I got a very well deserved appology . But iwas just glad to have my baby back , and so she got washed and a hot wax bath , then i went and got my wife from work and now there is mud all up the side . but i`m happy that she is driving like she should do .

[Dave the Builder]

 Get yourself a haynes manual John...
you will save loads on repairs and know the job has been done right.
I would not trust a garage to do my brakes.
they said your handbrake shoes where shot when they did your brake pads. seemed to be working a little too well when the spring failed (or they forgot to put it back on)
 HJB (Haynes joke books/repair manuals) are not 100% but give you a good idea of how to do a job or what might be wrong. I'm not on commision but you will find about 50 on ebay for sale as i post.

[vauxhalljohn]

Got one Dave , it came with the car mate . But when it comes to brakes i thought i would leave it in the hands of the people who know what they are doing , Well so i thought ?

Usually when i need the big stuff doing on the car , my mate gives me a hand and we both get stuck in . I aint completley  tooled up when it comes to the technical side of things but i like to get my hands dirty , I`m more cosmetics . If it had`nt of been for my bronchitis , i did have the chance to train as a body sprayer when i was on the YTS.

But being the only young male in town to own a carlton , im struggling to find a carlton enthusiast . And scatman is local but lives the other side of lincoln . But dont worry craig i`ll paye you a visit soon , i want to have alook at this volvo you just baught from ebay ?.
Dying to know what your plans are mate.

[Scatmancraig]

Got one Dave , it came with the car mate . But when it comes to brakes i thought i would leave it in the hands of the people who know what they are doing , Well so i thought ?

Usually when i need the big stuff doing on the car , my mate gives me a hand and we both get stuck in . I aint completley  tooled up when it comes to the technical side of things but i like to get my hands dirty , I`m more cosmetics . If it had`nt of been for my bronchitis , i did have the chance to train as a body sprayer when i was on the YTS.

But being the only young male in town to own a carlton , im struggling to find a carlton enthusiast . And scatman is local but lives the other side of lincoln . But dont worry craig i`ll paye you a visit soon , i want to have alook at this volvo you just baught from ebay ?.
Dying to know what your plans are mate.

I don't live that far away, only a short drive.  The problems you've had with the rear brakes sound more like a handbrake shoe locating pin coming off.  They are prone to coming through the backplate duie to wear & rust!  It happened on my 24v, i managed to straighten it out & it's been fine since. 

If you need any work doing on yours, your could always leave it with me & borrow the Volvo as a courtesy car!!!  Picking it up next weekend, i'm looking forward to this!!

[Dave the Builder]

I don't live that far away, only a short drive. The problems you've had with the rear brakes sound more like a handbrake shoe locating pin coming off. They are prone to coming through the backplate duie to wear & rust! It happened on my 24v, i managed to straighten it out & it's been fine since.

If you need any work doing on yours, your could always leave it with me & borrow the Volvo as a courtesy car!!! Picking it up next weekend, i'm looking forward to this!!

you aint even picked it up yet and your trying to give it away 
don't you need a HGV licence for that ? must be more than 7.5 ton

[Scatmancraig]

must be more than 7.5 ton

& that's just the bumpers!!!

[vauxhalljohn]

craig , my mates give me enough stick for driving the carlton , they`d roll over and die laughing if thry saw me roll up it the volvo . But i will keep it in mind mate it was a nice thought .

Well if you doing anything sunday , you are welcome to pop over if you fancy a journey and a coffee . I`ll even let you have a drive of the diplomat if you fancy . there is an offer you cannot refuse .
Any one else fancy a coffee is also welcome .

[HMK]

I wasn't going to say too much about your local garage as some people have a good relationship with their garage & are happy with their service. I think the point that I thought 'incompetent, money grabbing to$$ers', was when they said your calipers were corroded & rotten

Perhaps what they should have said (or even meant to say, but it got confused between the spanner monkey & the office girl who wrote out the advisory), was that the brake BACK PLATES were corroded & rotten. That's probably why the return spring pulled out or why the shoe steady pin pulled through!! Or perhaps they meant that the return springs were corroded & rotten & about to break - they often are on these cars.

Although it's not good to have the return springs missing, I've never known it to cause a near accident like just happened to you. The red Carlton estate I bought several months ago from out your way had BOTH of those return springs missing & they had been missing for a LONG while. In your case it was probably due to the fact that the handbrake mechanism was adjusted right up (probably two clicks & it's on) that gave it no safety margin when the spring came off.

My guess is that those Tanvic folk probably haven't worked on a Carlton rear brake system before & didn't have the appropriate spare parts to hand, such as the return springs (other than the parts you gave them).....I wonder if they've fitted the correct spring now.....I'd check if I were you. You need to either do the jobs yourself or find someone who knows Carltons to do the jobs for you - If Craig is willing, then I would let him help you out as he DOES know the model

As for rear springs, I can assure you that they don't break by going over any amount of bumps. They break because on the original Vauxhall ones the metal of the spring coil tapers down at the ends to a VERY small diameter & road stones get jammed in that last turn & breaks them off. Interestingly, aftermarket springs are made from the same diameter steel over the entire length of the coil. This is done for cheapness in manufacture, but actually makes the springs stronger - I've never known an aftermarket spring break at the bottom end.........Well, that's my theory, unless anyone else knows any different? Also, that's a good tip from 'Carlton_Mad', I've thought about doing that myself on several occasions - infact I've just cut the broken end off one with an angle grinder earlier on tonight & as long as it's only lost an inch or two of the coil end, I can't see too much of a problem. Turning the spring round so that the cut end is at the top might then be a good idea. Your springs have probably been broken at the bottom ends for years (For proof, check the broken end for level of rust). Those Tanvic boys know this a Vauxhall weakness (not just Carltons) & would look for something like this as an easy, money spinning job for the future

[vauxhalljohn]

HMK , Really thanfull for your advice mate . Sounds like you know what you are talking about and it is good to know i have friends on hand who can give me reassuring advie , than some bloke who is just after taking my money .

I did not realise you were an lincolnshire man your self excuse my ignorance . We should get a little lincs group meeting together one night at a local  pub , Or just get together one sunday yourself , craig and i  .And anyone else we can gather locally . 

There are plenty of carltons around grantham that ive seen on certain days , so we need to advertise the fact that there is a club for the real enthusiast.
 

[HMK]

Sounds like a good idea, John We'll have to sort something out

[Scatmancraig]

Sounds like a good idea, John We'll have to sort something out

I'll be up for that too!  There's a few more Lincs members too.  Budgie is Llocal to Lincoln, although i've not seen him post on here for some time.  Then there's GSi24VBONES who lives near Louth IIRC, Mr_Whippy in Cleethorpes. 

[Scatmancraig]

Well if you doing anything sunday , you are welcome to pop over if you fancy a journey and a coffee . I`ll even let you have a drive of the diplomat if you fancy . there is an offer you cannot refuse .
Any one else fancy a coffee is also welcome .

Can't do Sunday as i am at work from 8 till 5!!  I'm actually not at work tomorrow though (for a change), i will be sorting out stuff in my shed ready for the next Monza to arrive.  I currently have 2, but one is being swapped for the one that's coming.  Spent today replacing all of the brake pipes, there was only 2 that it didn't fail the MOT on!!

You are welcome to pop round tomorrow if you like, I will be about most of the day!