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greasehog
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« on: February 04, 2012, 04:10:23 PM » |
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Hi guys
My 2.0 club normal runs as sweet as a nut but for the last couple of weeks it has been running like it's gonna run out of fuel. 1st and 2nd gear aren't to bad but when it gets into 3rd and 4th etc that's when it starts to judder and hold back like it's gonna run out of fuel..
Now so far i've changed the HT leads no difference checked the spark plugs they're good i've renewed the fuel filter still no change what else could be it be???
i might add though that a couple of weeks before pay day i ran it quite low on fuel and thought it may have sucked up some crap from bottom of the tank hence why i changed the filter...
Any thoughts greatly appreciated
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Diane...  |
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melinx
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 04:46:35 PM » |
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You also said that it happened just after you changed to a panel filter ! It seems very possible that you may have a problem with the connections to the AFM plug after you disturbed it changing the filter  Try removing the plug, cleaning the pins with a cotton bud soaked in WD40 then give the socket a quick spray and see if that has improved matters  Also make sure that you haven't caused even the tiniest air leak on the large hose from the AFM to the manifold: that would cause some nasty running problems  |
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 04:49:53 PM by melinx »
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greasehog
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 04:54:23 PM » |
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i forgot to say before that i checked for leaks etc and all was well i even put the old airfilter back in for a wk and still no change....
I'll try what you've just suggested tomorrow..
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Diane... |
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greasehog
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 04:55:49 PM » |
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one more thing... it idles ok
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Diane... |
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greasehog
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 05:18:31 PM » |
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just braved the cold and cleaned the afm connections even tightened up a the jubilee clips checked the pipes all appear to be be ok....
took it for a spin once it gets into 3rd gear and it's like going 10mph uphill in 4th gear
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Diane... |
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melinx
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 06:57:14 PM » |
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melinx
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 07:25:49 PM » |
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I can only suggest doing the same with the main engine wiring loom plug attached to the bracket bolted to the AFM (well, it is on my 2.6 !) |
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greasehog
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2012, 08:02:39 PM » |
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ok i'll see if i can find that and do the same....
someone suggested that it could be the fuel pump?!
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Diane... |
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greasehog
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 08:15:46 PM » |
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would using a higher octane petrol cause this??
i omnly ask that cos it seems to have gotten worse after i filled up with totals excellium petrol....
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Diane... |
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melinx
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 09:20:38 AM » |
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It's extremely unlikely that using higher octane fuel would cause a problem, but it's not unknown for fuel to be contaminated with the silicon anti-foaming additive used in diesel which kills the lambda sensor; but I would think that's very unlikely after the hooraw and cost caused to the petrol companies the last time it happened. I mention this only as a possibility, because all your problems seem to be from around the time that you were disturbing the components around the AFM: A failing Lambda sensor or faulty lambda wiring will quite possibly give loss of power symptoms by causing a weak fuel mixture It may be worth completely removing the large hose from the AFM to the throttle body and flexing it about while looking for any cracks. I caused myself a lot of problems by introducing a virtually undetectable air leak on a rubber manifold connector: It caused the engine to be hesitant, lacking in power and the occasional backfire; after much searching, I only found the leak by accident  |
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greasehog
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2012, 10:16:45 AM » |
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i'll take the hose off then and see what i can find...
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Diane... |
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greasehog
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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2012, 11:14:09 AM » |
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right... i've taken the large hose off gave it a good looking over stretched it out and i can't see any cracks or splits in it, all connections are clean and on properly...
I'm truly stumped on this one.
Think i'm gonna have to book it into a garage... :/
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Diane... |
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man of kent
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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2012, 12:26:36 PM » |
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I'm guessing with all of these but if you ran on higher octane fuel without changing the plug to 98 octane, is the Lambda sensing a higher running temperature and retarding the ignition under load by reading the depression in the AFM, or the knock sensor is detecting something and retarding again. i.e. partial safety running mode to protect the engine? It does say change the 93/98 plug so there must be a reason.
Are you still running on higher octane? If you refilled, then how much high octane is left.
Can higher detonation temperatures damage the lambda sensor? Lambda sensors can cause all sorts of problems and dont last that long. How old is it? Murph had lambda sensor problems on his 2.6 recently. Not sure but I think lambda sensors work by measuring the exhaust temperature i.e too hot its a weak mixture, too cold and its a rich mixture and adjusts the fuel accordingly. The octane rating does affect the exhaust temperature. You can damage the catalysts but cant see how this would change the running of the engine. Handbooks do say dont push start as too much fuel kills the catalyst.
Sometimes a fuel problem damages the catalyst which are replaced but the problem is still there.
If you changed back to the old filter housing and AFM, I would have thought it was not this.
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OLD TECHNOLOGY WORKS!
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kevinfourlegs
The only TC member with four legs
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2012, 01:08:28 PM » |
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Will the Club have an octane plug? My 92 Diplomat had one, but it had no cat. My 93 GLi hasn't got the octane plug, but it has a cat. I'm unsure as to what year Di's car is.
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RWD, as it was, as it is, as it should be for real men.
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greasehog
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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2012, 01:19:28 PM » |
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my club was born on the 18/1/94 not sure if it has an octane plug....
i've got half a tank of the premium fuel left should i run this down a bit more then refuel with the normal fuel or should i do it now and mix equal parts together? and see if that works..
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Diane... |
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kevinfourlegs
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2012, 01:30:29 PM » |
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I have a suspicion that yours may not have the octane plug.
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RWD, as it was, as it is, as it should be for real men.
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melinx
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2012, 01:39:28 PM » |
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High octane petrol does not run at higher temperatures, it just enables you to run at a higher compression ratio or advanced ignition timing due to its better anti knock rating. All that the octane plug does is tell the ECU that it can safely advance the ignition timing because you have told it that you now have 98 octane fuel. The Lambda sensor does not work by sensing exhaust temperatures, it senses how much oxygen is in the exhaust gas. http://totalcarlton.com/forums/index.php/topic,13031.msg107454.html#msg107454 |
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« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 01:45:48 PM by melinx »
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kevinfourlegs
The only TC member with four legs
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2012, 04:42:50 PM » |
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I have used higher octane fuel in my 2.0 Diplomat and never reversed the octane plug, with no adverse effects.
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RWD, as it was, as it is, as it should be for real men.
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melinx
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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2012, 04:49:08 PM » |
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There will not be any adverse effects ! but if you are not setting the plug to 98 octane, there will be no beneficial effects either and it's pretty much a waste of money |
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greasehog
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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2012, 04:54:10 PM » |
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well i think i'll use up some more of the fuel that's in the tank and top up with the regular and see if that makes a difference...
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Diane... |
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man of kent
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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2012, 05:25:26 PM » |
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Very comprehensive report that Melinx. You live in learn. I was always taught that the higher compression ration (higher octane) the higher the temperature which is why diesels have a very high compression ratio to heat the diesel sufficiently to ignite. If the diesel compression ratio were less it would not ignite.
Wonder how the lambda measures the oxygen content in an exhaust gas? Lambda technology is certainly complex. Probably why they are so unreliable on modern engines. My daughter has had 2 go in the last 2 years on her modern vauxhall, although the band they operate in now is probably a lot tighter to meet the emission regs.
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OLD TECHNOLOGY WORKS!
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melinx
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« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2012, 07:00:23 PM » |
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The higher the compression ratio the better the power and efficiency, but you need to avoid pre ignition (knock) in the engine hence the high octane (anti knock) rating fuel needed for performance petrol engines The diesel equivalent of petrol's octane is the fuels cetane rating. The modern petrol engines use a different (wide band) sensor to give the finer control that tighter emission regulations require: Our Carltons use the original narrow band sensors. |
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greasehog
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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2012, 07:32:08 PM » |
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good bit of info there...
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Diane... |
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melinx
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2012, 08:34:21 AM » |
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Wonder how the lambda measures the oxygen content in an exhaust gas?
The link below explains it; there are also a number of other sections in the link explaining the combustion process http://www.gonefcon.com/whatifdyno/theory.htm |
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kevinfourlegs
The only TC member with four legs
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Am I the only TC member in south Wales?
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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2012, 08:52:52 AM » |
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All good info, but has the issue been solved yet?
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RWD, as it was, as it is, as it should be for real men.
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