Threatened Strikes

[melinx]

It was on our local news that Walsall and Willenhall markets will be forced to close on Wednesday for "Health & Safety" reasons because the council workers will be on strike

Willenhall is my local town and I'm there often so I was pretty sure that I knew how it worked but I verified this today by asking some of the stall holders.

After the shops have shut on the day before the market opens, PRIVATE contractors move in and set up the stalls.

After the market closes, PRIVATE contractors move in and take down the stalls and PRIVATE contractors clean up the market rubbish.

The only council involvement is the man from the council going round the stalls collecting the rent

I have no idea how many people are involved in "administering" this but knowing how the council operates, it's probably a disproportionate number of people for the effort involved and all of them will be drawing pretty good pay with excellent pensions

The only "Health & Safety" issues in my opinion, is the mental stress in the markets office brought on by people finding out that they really are unnecessary and the only safety issue is the threat to their pensions.


A quote from "Eye Bulging Taxation"  : -

"Many many years ago, we had a government (with a small 'g') it was rather like receiving a cute little elephant as a present; the bloody thing sat in the house and grew and grew until it was taking 90% of our income to feed it.

We can't get rid of it without demolishing the house; we can't poison it because the rotting corpse would make the house uninhabitable.

Perhaps the only answer is to just bugger off and leave it to starve."

[PeterC]

Oh and whatever money is left over ?. Go on, give it to the poor bank(ers).

I have done bits of work for councils and they do tend to disappear up their own backside on beaurocracy. They can spend months accumulating fifty or more man hours at management rates faffing around deciding if they can afford something that can be done in seventy man hours anyway. Oh and the councils are notorius for paying up late.

[melinx]

Today, Wednesfield market ('administered' by Wolverhampton) a couple of miles from Willenhall was operating normally !!

No 'Health and Safety' issues there then

I was told that any Willenhall ('administered' by Walsall) market traders trying to operate normally were threatened with prosecution

[kevinfourlegs]

If anybody wishes to work and not to strike, why shouldn't they be allowed to? Supposed to be a 'free' country. If a trader can't afford to lose a days takings, then they should be allowed to work if they wish.

[Pedro]

These public-sector, chinless, money-grabbing t*ssp*ts make me sick.

they should get an 'ordinary' job and see how much they'd lose out on compared to what they get now. Most of us have to pay for our own pensions (and some of us have lost a lot of money on them) then they might have cause to moan.

*Insert appropriate very naughty word here*

In fact, sod it - to all the council workers who went on strike today:



I'm on about the comfortable council workers given their jobs on a plate - you know, they get everything they need such as iPads, iPhones, jollies abroad, expensive furniture in their offices and pension schemes paid for by us.

Then you do have to consider the 'life choices' people make when it comes to jobs.
Don't want to teach to an inner city class of 40 kids? Look for a different job, then.
Don't want to clear out drains? Should have paid more attention in school, shouldn't ya.

I'm not a great fan of my job - should I go on strike cos it costs me the best part of £400 a month to travel there and back? No, that's ridiculous........but I took it because I didn't want to sit on the rock 'n' roll, scrounging.

Sorry, but I'm a Tory at heart.

[PeterC]

Talking of life policies (thats what a pension is). I was mug enough to get an endowment mortgage, in 15 months time my mortgage ends and the building society are going say wheres the money then. I recently found out its going to deliver at 55% when I had thought I would still get 75% of the original promise.

Thats why the financial services sector can go forth and multiply as well. Most of them have the better pensions outside the public sector and we taxpayers - you guessed it are subsidising their lifestyle as well.

[diplomat2.6]

I note that many comments are centred on council workers who are frequently a particulary low calibre of worker. However, a nurse or teacher who now have to be graduates will currently have to be income-free for 4 years - paying £9000 per year to train and pay their own living expenses, resulting in a debt around £60k. Once qualified, they will have to pay nearly 10% of their income to receive a pension which they will have to wait 45 years to receive. When they do receive it, if they dare to have had children then their career average salary will be so
ewhat diluted. They earn half as much as a tube train drivers or car salesman and have to give up most weekends to make up for the time they spend fixing the ills of society.
 
I have heard it said that teachers are 'glorified babysitters' - if only. 32 children x £7 (minimum wage) x 6 hours per day x 195 working days = £262 000 a year. I think many are going to take the advice offered in the previous post and we'll see where that gets us. Additionally, a monthly persion contribution of £400 could be better invested which then makes the current pension bill for current retirees too expensive as current employees pay for those currently retired. Much of the problem was caused in the early 90s when the conservates allowed thousands of teachers to retire at 50 with superannuated pensions. the Immigrant teachers cannot have CRB checks and therefore cannot be employed.



 

[Whippit]

I got screwed on my pension so why shouldn't they get screwed on theirs?

Most of the posts on here smack of nothing more than petty jealousy, if you think 'public sector' workers have such a great deal why aren't you doing it?
Oh because the pays crap........

[Pedro]

I don't work in the public sector cos I use tools better than I use a pen.
I bet my pay is alot worse than most in the public sector, but I can't go on strike - I'd be out of a job!

I think the Onion leaders are the biggest winners with these strikes - seen who they are and what they get from what their members pay in? Outrageous! And they try to tell you that 'Everyone is equal'..............
.............but some are more 'equal' than others, aren't they Bob Crow, Arthur Scargill (is he still around?) et al.

[PeterC]

We are all living longer (on average). You can expect to live until you are 90 (24 years after retirement) so if you work from 18 to 66 (48 approx years) then you are going to need a pension for a time equivalent to half the length of your working life. When the retirement age was originally set at 65 most men died before reaching that age (I read it somewhere). That means we are going to need pensions to pay for us for A LOT longer. The choices are: Accept less pension per year, Pay more into you pension scheme while still working, retire later (thus putting more money into the pension and depending on the pension for less time). We had that explained to us in the privae sector 10 years ago.

I planned to work for longer, preferably in an easier job once I have paid for house etc. But instead at 51 I am long term unemployed. I might as well rent and get housing benefit.

I feel sorry for civil servants, teachers etc who had the wool pulled over their eyes for the last ten years. But welcome to the real world. At least this way they are getting a pension rather than the risk of a broken promise.

As for my pension - that will be the state one.

[Whippit]

Average female NHS worker's pension: £3,500.pa

Whats so great about that?

Private sector pension crisis largely caused by fund managers creaming off the huge surpluses in the 90's then renaging on legal obligations by saying they could not afford to pay 'because you wont die soon enough' (average life expectancy is 80, has increased by 6 years since 1980 and has been increasing at the same rate since 1960, hardly unpredictable).
http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:GBR&dl=en&hl=en&q=average+life+expectancy+uk

If the guts had not been ripped out of manufacturing and the private sector workers not robbed of any rights they had to protest do you really think we would have rolled over and taken it?

[melinx]

I totally agree with Whippit, but : -

Taxation levels in this country are far to high to make our manufactured goods competitive and the vast numbers of people in the unproductive public sector bear much of the responsibility for this

The days of the financial sector appearing to generate wealth by playing the three shell game was over when somebody kicked over the table and discovered that there wasn't a pea under any of the shells.

As a nation we can not make a living by everyone taking in each others washing.

Unless the taxation levels fall and we start earn our way again in the wider world, it is going to 'hit the fan' with a vengeance before very much longer

[melinx]

I see that the final minimal connection between Clarksons gob and brain has been severed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15977813

[man of kent]

I'm a bit neutral on this public workers pensions strike. I dont think you can blame then really as it was the government who gave them the pensions in their employment contracts! There pensions may be better than the private sector but thats because the private pension providers cream off a lot of the private pension funds in fees!

There is also more to it than just the pensions issue that has upset them. We know about the bankers bonuses etc who decide themselves what they get, the other issue I have is that most people are taking a hit, mainly people with savings such as pensioners, but I cannot think of any penalty the rich and super rich are taking. OK they have to pay extra VAT. So does everybody else.

Whilst their is unfairness in our society which is getting more extreme then it will cause unrest.

Nothing will change unless people want it to. Personally I do not vote as there isn't anybody to vote for. I used to vote Lib Dem in an attempt to change things but they just joined in with the rich lot at the last election. I didn't vote for them to join the conservatives. You cannot trust them now. Only when people refuse to vote do we get near a revolution and then the powers to be will do something to stay in power. Its said that even if you do not agree you should use your vote. I disagree as nothing will change.

The basic fact is we do not invest for exports. We just keep closing our factories and importing. The next to go will be BAE workers on the Hawk jet. Its a world leader that does not have any orders because of the slump, so they will shut it down. No doubt France will pick up the next big order for trainers. The government does nothing and the companies prefer to give profits to the shareholders rather than invest or save for rainy times. In fact the government seemed to promote the importing of trains from Siemens rather than the UK Bombardier company because we have higher interest rates in the UK than Germany which was apparently the only reason Bombardier lost out. So why couldn't the goverment provide cheap loans or underwrite them if we have the cheapest interest rates on what we borrow as a country! The government will have to pay unemployment money to the employees anyway.

EXPORT OF DIE.

[encino]

A letter printed in the local paper today told of a couple, both teachers of the same age, who retired quite recently at the tender age of sixty. They received a lump sum of £30k each and a pension of 15k per annum each.
My girlfriend works for Social Services and a woman in her department went sick for a year with 'stress', on full pay, came back to work for a week and went sick again. It's been eight months so far on full pay once again and no signs of her coming back to work. The woman cannot be sacked or reprimanded and once she retires will receive her full pension and a guaranteed part time position at her old job if she wants it. Whoever wrote that work contract is either stupid or more likely, a taxpayer financed person with a similar contract, a contract which allows people to do the minimum and expect the maximum.
This country is being ruined by the mentality held by some that once working for the public sector you have a gold plated job for life with gold plated benefits and seem to feel that people  who work in the private sector and actually create wealth in this country should be eternally grateful that the public sector actually turn up and go through the motions of doing what they are paid to do......SERVE THE PUBLIC.
There were even retired headmasters who, having been well paid all their working life and have a pension to die for, were proudly marching yesterday along side their hard done to ex-colleagues because their feeling is that teachers pensions should  be untouchable and index linked. The marching, banner waving head of one of the leftist teaching unions even said to the BBC that the present rate of pay for a headmaster of £65k plus perks, countless holidays and a nice fat pension was a lot less than they deserve for doing such a 'demanding job'.  What a load of bollocks, considering the way they turn out tens of thousands of virtually illiterate 16year olds every year who have zero prospects in the 21st century.
I speak as somebody who was self employed all my working life and paid my contributions and taxes for 45 years and ended up with a state pension of £105 per week on which to live. It's a good job I saved a few quid as I went along or I too would be choosing heat or food this winter.
The unions brought this country to it's knees in the 1970's trying to bring down a government and now seem hellbent on history repeating itself.
Maybe us pensioners should go on strike and close down and picket all the charity shops for a day.

[ian]

My chance to speak out of turn and upset everyone.

Go on strike see if i care?not my battle, but what i do have a problem with is when people have to take time off work as kids cant go to school,so the knock on effect hits people who have nothing to do with it and are at work,

Im with clarkson on this one.Life is hard, stop moaning and get on with it, because if you wont, there is about 2.1 million people who will!

[Pedro]

A letter printed in the local paper today told of a couple, both teachers of the same age, who retired quite recently at the tender age of sixty. They received a lump sum of £30k each and a pension of 15k per annum each.
My girlfriend works for Social Services and a woman in her department went sick for a year with 'stress', on full pay, came back to work for a week and went sick again. It's been eight months so far on full pay once again and no signs of her coming back to work. The woman cannot be sacked or reprimanded and once she retires will receive her full pension and a guaranteed part time position at her old job if she wants it. Whoever wrote that work contract is either stupid or more likely, a taxpayer financed person with a similar contract, a contract which allows people to do the minimum and expect the maximum.
This country is being ruined by the mentality held by some that once working for the public sector you have a gold plated job for life with gold plated benefits and seem to feel that people  who work in the private sector and actually create wealth in this country should be eternally grateful that the public sector actually turn up and go through the motions of doing what they are paid to do......SERVE THE PUBLIC.
There were even retired headmasters who, having been well paid all their working life and have a pension to die for, were proudly marching yesterday along side their hard done to ex-colleagues because their feeling is that teachers pensions should  be untouchable and index linked. The marching, banner waving head of one of the leftist teaching unions even said to the BBC that the present rate of pay for a headmaster of £65k plus perks, countless holidays and a nice fat pension was a lot less than they deserve for doing such a 'demanding job'.  What a load of bollocks, considering the way they turn out tens of thousands of virtually illiterate 16year olds every year who have zero prospects in the 21st century.
I speak as somebody who was self employed all my working life and paid my contributions and taxes for 45 years and ended up with a state pension of £105 per week on which to live. It's a good job I saved a few quid as I went along or I too would be choosing heat or food this winter.
The unions brought this country to it's knees in the 1970's trying to bring down a government and now seem hellbent on history repeating itself.
Maybe us pensioners should go on strike and close down and picket all the charity shops for a day.

Spot on - especially the part I have highlighted.

This country need another Maggie.

[diplomat2.6]

Another Maggie would be excellent - except there isn't anything left to privatise. Also, we are heading to 3.5 million unemployed quite happily without her help. Oh... and there aren't any council houses left for her to sell off either. Interest rates of 10% would  be quite good too, adding £500 per month to the average mortgage repayments.

As ex minister for education, she'd really enjoy the huge benefits of having 67 year old teachers teaching children who are at least 3 generations younger than them - we know how full the universities are of 67 year olds embracing their professional development.

Still, at least we'd know that another 65 000 potential newly qualified teachers who are at the bottom of the pay scale wouldn't be needed for 2 years, making the million unemployed under-24s turn into 1 065 000.   





 

[melinx]

I think it more likely that what we need is a politician like Churchill who said "All I have to offer is blood sweat and tears" and an electorate that will support him rather than vote for unsustainable promises from some other party at the next election.

Many in the public sector still don't get the message, we're broke and can't afford what they offer

It's rather like a child saying 'Sorry you've lost your job dad but I still want my new bike for Christmas'

The genuine wealth creator was industry and we have taxed it out of existence or exported it, leading to the present levels of unemployment.

Sorry for the following "When I were a lad" but when I left full time study at an engineering college, it was not a matter of desperately looking for employment, it was more akin to cherry picking the indentured apprenticeships on offer.

That however was when the West Midlands was a hive (some would say a desolation) of manufacturing industry

[man of kent]

I dont really understand the logic of another Maggie. All I can remember was her closing down lots of industry, in fact most of it, so she could reduce taxes so we could all buy imports & foreign cars. We even wasted all the oil money on more imports. None of our oil money was reinvested, it was just taken as big shareholder profits to buy even more imports. The germans loved it! p.s. anybody heard about the Volks group 2.0L diesels with the oil pumps failing- everywhere!. Vorsprung durch technik. When will we learn?

I struggle to find anything she created. Perhaps a strong City with big fat cats who creamed everything off. I remember when one said we cannot keep going on like this lending money everywhere to get big bonuses. The reply from another fat cat.......... shut up and keep taking the bonuses!

Can anybody tell me which manufacturing industry she supported. I remember she got well paid for 3 lectures in Japan when Honda, Toyota and Nissan started here. Lots of grants to them and Rover got.......................? Rover and Peugeot/Citroen were in the same mess when she was in charge. The French government supported P/C and Maggie pursueded BAE to buy Rover even though they did not want it because look at all the Rover land you can sell! Asset stripping. Peugeot/Citroen are now a global company and Rover..............Well done Maggie.

Over 10 years of no strikes and worker support. Where has it got the workforce? A bigger gap between the rich & poor. No, Maggie was a long term disaster and history will show this.

I'm not labour, conservative or the other lot, but I know when I've been shafted.

[melinx]

Taxation levels in this country are far to high to make our manufactured goods competitive and the vast numbers of people in the unproductive public sector bear much of the responsibility for this

Unless the taxation levels fall and we start earn our way again in the wider world, it is going to 'hit the fan' with a vengeance before very much longer

I've just realised that it costs me as much to run my rubbish bin as it does to run the Carlton

I can't think of anything that the council provides that I need or use other than emptying my bin; if I tot up road tax, insurance and petrol (I only do about 3,000 miles a year) it almost exactly matches my council tax

[man of kent]

Council tax isn't for us. Its for immigrants and their families. Or to pay rent on flats for families that have no work and cannot keep up the mortgage payments.

I live on a steep hill and we have trouble getting the salt bin filled! Its full in the summer.

Have you noticed the number auctions of houses and flats that are becoming available. It happened last time the conservatives were in. People get unemployed, the houses get seized, the mortgage companies sell them cheap in auctions as they just want their bit back and rich people buy them to rent out. Its called a net transfer of money from working class people to the rich. The longer this goes on the less cheap houses are available to buy and there is a shortage of houses to buy, so you have to rent.

I dont vote so I'm not a conservative basher but you need to see whats happening.

Councils are now so short of cash they cannot afford to do up older property so they stay empty. Yet, the government gives grants to private landlords to do up houses!

Latest Lib Dem proposal - rich pensioners do not get bus passes. Since when do rich pensioners go by bus! I think it proves that politicians live in cloud cuckoo land.

[Whippit]

We now have more Pandas than conservative MP's in Scotland.


Not really relevant but just thought I'd say

[melinx]

Council tax isn't for us. Its for immigrants and their families. Or to pay rent on flats for families that have no work and cannot keep up the mortgage payments.

Silly me I will be believing in father Christmas next

[kevinfourlegs]

I didn't know it was still like that up there. I know on one election the Scots voting forced out every Tory candidate.

You mean you don't believe in Father Christmas?