Air con

[diplomat2.6]

Hope this will help somebody; Since I have had the diplomat there have always been leaks with the compressor. I could never understand why until today. The Harrison V5 compressor uses PAG 150 oil when retrofitted. This has the consistency of double cream. Most automatic regass machines uses PAG46 which has the consistency of WD40. It is the same as filling your Carlton with mobil 1 0-30. It may be OK when it was brand new but it will leak like a sieve if you did it now.

Therefore, you need to flush the system, fill compressor with PAG 150 oil and then vacuum, oil inject PAG 150 to a total of 265g then regass with R134a. My usual place weren't prepared to do this as only the older V5 use this thicker oil so I phoned somewhere else.

'It is absolutely impossible to fill a Carlton with r134a - IT WONT WORK!' You need Rs24. Clearly he was a bit of a stroker and didn't realise that Rs24 is an r134a blend with a hexane/pentane pump lubricant which is pointless with a V5. 'You'd need to replace the pipes, accululator, orrifice tube, compressor and flush it all out'.

Fundamentally this is easy and I'd already done it.  He then proceeded to tell me it was a waste of time with a Carlton and why did I want to bother? 

Anyway, he's coming tomorrow but I thought I'd show you how a rebuild is done if you are interested. It will cost you about £300 if you want to do it. My advice is not to bother with secondhand parts unless they were working the day before you got them.

Here goes;

Take out the radiator and condenser. You will note a piece of tubing attached which I couldn't undo and rather than risk snapping the fluid line, I took it out at the next joint which is where the orrifice tube can be found. Remember to fit new O rings (the green r134 compatible type smeared with a little PAG oil to aid their location



The next picture shows the green UV dye that is used to locate leaks. As you can see, it was leaking from a lot of places due to the wrong oil being used. Additionally, leaks aside, the pressure switches were not operating the fan. The top one operates the fan when the high side pressure is above a predetermined level. The operation of the fan will then reduce this pressure to within limits. The colours of the switches indicate their switching pressures so make sure that they are the same on the new compressor. See http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/091489.html if you need any more info.

The bottom switch will cut the compressor clutch if the system is overpressure to limit damage. If it comes disconnected, the system will not work.



The next picture is the accumulator (not receiver drier) because the Carlton has an orrifice tube system. This device removes moisture from the refridgerant. If it didn't, the system would form a water ice plug and block causing overpressure. This will be replaced as it is saturated with the wrong oil. If your compressor has died, parts will have accumulated here and in the orrifice tube which has a fine mesh for such a purpose. They cost £40 from carairconditioningsupplies.com or £176 from Vauxhall 8 years ago when you could buy them. You will note the r134 service port which you will have to add (about £5)

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The next picture shows the compressor with the pipes removed. Note the oil everywhere as the auto charging station added too much oil. There was far more than there should have been.




Accumulator removed. Note oil visible. Be very carfull here as it is very very easy to damage the aluminium thread and then you've wasted £40 as the seal has to be perfect. Fit new O rings everywhere you can, all smeared with oil to aid their location. My new one was made of cream cheese.



Now the flushing commences. Brake cleaner is the most cost effective substance to disolve old oil residue. I used an old set of pipes and a sand basting gum full of brake cleaner. Flush until clear and then blow with airgun to remove the excess. Note that residue will be removed under vacuum when it will 'boil off'. If you are re-using the compressor, DO NOT flush. Pour in some PAG oil and rotate pump and repeat until clean.



Picture shows orrifice tube in liquid line on o/s driver's chassis rail. Replace if possible. They cost £1.50 so not a major expense. The colour indicates the size of the orrifice whose job it is to control the flow of liquid to the evaporator. White is the r134a model, yellow is R12.



New compressor for £170+VAT from decent chaps at compressortech.com. Fitting guidelines provided





New accumulator and PAG oil



Then you put it all back together with new o rings, vacuum and regass with 950g R134a.

Remember be very carefull about autocharging machines and the wrong oil.

[bootie3367]

Excellent thread. Makes me wanna go out and buy a kit now, I need aircon!

Jon

[diplomat2.6]

Regassed today. 29 centigrade outside, 6 at the vent whilst on the drive. I learnt a couple of things today;

1) The man I called was actually very good; he just presented himself very badly on the phone.
2) There is no need to buy a new accumulator unless you are retrofitting for the first time. PAG oil and r12 mineral oil emulsify and form mayonnaise.   He did my wife's Volvo 850 and vacuumed it for 90 mins at which point he declared it moisture free. He said that if you vac it long enough, you never need a new one (unless it is full of debris from a knackered compressor)
3)Auto-charging stations are the Devil's tool. They never accurately charge a system and fill the car with the wrong type of oil; the further away your compressor's requirements are from normal oil, the more of a problem this will be. No compressor uses thicker oil that the Carlton when retrofitted so therefore they are to be avoided at all costs.
4) The performance of the compressor very much increases whith engine spead. With a 6 pot cartlon driven sedately this will mean max cooling is never achieved. Fine on a motorway, however.
5) If you have a Saab 9-3 have the ac serviced. One client didn't and, on a 54 plate 9-3 convertible the compressor ceased on the motorway and as it had a toothed belt it threw the compressor and alternator straight through the bonnet, snapped the timing belt/chain and knackered the head ending in a total bill of £3500+labour+vat
6) Don't go to kwik fit as they a clueless
7) Finding a decent ac chap is extremely difficult

Good luck

[carltonman]

Long live Scotland! Never too hot to have such a toy.

[diplomat2.6]

Just thought I'd give y, you all an update. Yesterday I checked the cooling capability; 4 Centigrade at the vent (at 2000rpm) which suggests a fairly leakfree system after 6+ months. So..with aircon.. do it properly, do it once.

[carltonman]

Oh well, I am scrapping 2 of mine to keep the world Green. (Carltons that is).

[diplomat2.6]

Still working and no leaks from the seals. 2 years leak free

[encino]

Slightly off topic but I wonder if you could advise me. The aircon on my Senny A  works but isn't very cold. Is there a way to tell if it's been converted and able to be re gassed?

[diplomat2.6]

If it has been regassed with r134 then the silver accumulator will have a set of fittings added on so that the pipes fit charging machines. There will also be a sticker Informing of conversion. I had a senator A with r12 and the ac wasn't great even when just regassed. My advice would be to either not bother doing anything or buy a new ac compressor (check USA websites) And convert to R134a yourself or find an ac engineer who can break the law and top it up with r12. There is still a lot about in coaches, lorrys and aeroplanes. A lot of old mercedes still have their working r12 systems intact

[encino]

 Thanks for that. I will make enquiries locally to see if I can find someone to do the dirty deed with R12.

[melinx]

As diplomat2.6 says, there should have been a sticker somewhere under the bonnet informing that the conversion has been done; failing that, look for an added fitting on the accumulator/dryer which accepts the larger R134a fittings.

[diplomat2.6]

The reason why I advise not to retrofit without a compressor change is the extremely large likelihood of leaking seals. With the Carltons, the new PAG oil that R134a demands  will be too much for old seals. The ac engineer that you try to corrupt will have to be non automotive and will probably have to be a friend of a friend at minimum as fines are huge.

I have heard that propane works  quite well as a refrigerant but cannot be legally used due to obvious risks!